Texas UIL State Championship Qualification Information

[FBHS_Robotics]

[quote=a

Being UIL could mean travel money for teams whenever they qualify for the "next level". It can mean students can get letter jackets (which while it's something silly in my book might mean something to plenty of students that wouldn't really letter in anything else).

[/QUOTE]

I don't think this will happen at all. It is not like being a UIL recognized event opens up purse strings that weren't open before. I have already been told by my UIL coordinator that there are no, and will not ever be, additional funds for robotics in the UIL budget.

As for letter jackets. My school gets those for my kids now even though we are not UIL. That is a school by school decision.

[FBHS_Robotics]

As a fellow FTC sponsor, I mirror your concerns. I have sent an e-mail to the UIL STEM rep overseeing the robotics pilot asking about the one school, one team aspect. IF I ever get an answer, I will be sure to post it here.

[wireties]

Originally Posted by FBHS_Robotics

I don't think this will happen at all. It is not like being a UIL recognized event opens up purse strings that weren't open before. I have already been told by my UIL coordinator that there are no, and will not ever be, additional funds for robotics in the UIL budget.

With respect, I think you underestimate the leverage, being a UIL sport, brings to local teams. It is already happening at our school. Informed that the Dallas competition was used to calculate points for the UIL State Championship we got transportation and other things paid by the school.

Principals prioritize UIL sports and clubs. All UIL activities contribute points to the sponsoring school. A successful robotics program might be pulled under the UIL blanket quickly - more "points", more prestige. Of course a principal or a team might chose to be non-UIL, even at a UIL eligible school. That is true of any sport or club.

[JeffB]

Originally Posted by Michael Blake

And let's move away from this tiered eligibility list for TRR or _anything_ FIRST competition robotics related that involves _exclusion_ of private and home school students--it's just NOT right.

--Michael Blake

After three very aggressively toned posts to this effect, let's take a bigger look at your claim.

Are private schools included in other UIL events? In those cases, are all private schools invited or is it a subset of the private schools?

When we realize UIL events tend to include UIL teams, it shouldn't be angering to see that being consistent. It's not creating tiers. It's creating more opportunities for some kids.

It's more surprising you'd naturally expect UIL to open up their competition to all schools. If UIL membership isn't required, it's no more of a stretch to ask why schools near Texas borders aren't invited. We could just as easily be upset the event excludes LA schools. Students are students, aren't they?

Is it perfect? Not at all. But, there's no need to be THIS upset about it.

[ahartnet]

Originally Posted by FBHS_Robotics

I don't think this will happen at all.

For some districts it almost assuredly will. For our district it's written into the board rules that if you qualify for the State level of a UIL competiton, that the school board helps fund travel (I forget the specifics without looking it up). In fact I think there may have been some kerfuffle about it because ____ goes directly to states without any regional/district competition and there were arguments that they shouldn't be funding their travel since they don't have to qualify prior. Again, that's specific to our district but I'd be surprised if we were the only one.

As far as letterman jackets go, you're correct - it's definitely a school to school decision. But if it's a UIL recognized thing - I'd be surprised if any team would be rejected being allowed to letter in robotics. Right now, we're told no lettering - but I'm hoping with UIL that'll change for our kids that really want to letter in Robotics.

[Michael Blake]

I'm gonna step out and off this conversation from this point.

Although I'm not happy with some things from FIRST-in-Texas and I'm hopeful things will change on that within the near future... I want to reiterate as I said in an earlier post that FIRST-in-Texas does _a lot_ of things _right_ and really well and has _good_ and good intentioned folks there.

I think people confuse direct discussion with trying to blow things up... and IF we don't discuss our different viewpoints and experiences HOW do we ever resolve things?

I'll close with a favorite quote of mine:

"There's your truth there's the other person's truth and nobody's lying". --Robert Evans


--Michael Blake

[Drakxii]

Since the students are not the ones paying the UIL dues, the schools are, that first rule should just read:

1. Each team must be sponsored by at least 1 UIL member school.

This would allow team supported by the UIL school such as, 3847 and 3481, to play without having to kick people of the team.

[rsegrest]

Originally Posted by RoboSquad

I agree that the way this seems to have rolled out with some lack of communication...

Are you sure no one tried or did they try and get ignored? I honestly do not remember. I remember emails discussing UIL committees trying to get things organized and 'new information coming soon'. I never responded to those emails though. Having served on several different planning committees in various organizations what I have witnessed is that surveys, requests for ideas/thoughts/concerns are sent out and either very few or no one responds. I am not blaming as I am guilty of the same thing just stating what I have witnessed. I have elected not to respond to things but do so knowing that I lose all rights to complain since I am choosing not to make my feelings/thoughts known.

Originally Posted by RoboSquad

it takes a lot of money to run the program.

It takes a tremendous amount of money to run FRC. IMO this is part of the reason behind the push to get all states on the district model sooner rather than later. Some regionals break even, some raise more than they need, and some lose money and in the end they still have to have enough money to host Champs.


Don't just follow where the money is going. Trace where it is coming from to begin with. Those with enough power and who supply significant amounts of money to fund things also tend to put stipulations on that money and how it can be spent.

UIL governs UIL not the schools and not FIRST. We just have to abide by their rules to play their games. You don't have to do FIRST to participate in UIL just like you don't have to participate in UIL to do FIRST. Unfortunately this year it impacts TRR. Hopefully they will be able to separate the two next year.

[JohnSchneider]

Originally Posted by Drakxii

Since the students are not the ones paying the UIL dues, the schools are, that first rule should just read:

1. Each team must be sponsored by at least 1 UIL member school.

This would allow team supported by the UIL school such as, 3847 and 3481, to play without having to kick people of the team.

This is a holdover from competitive sports in UIL and probably will not see change.

For instance if this extended to football, I could open up "Johns private school for football" and recruit (things normal high schools cannot do) the best players in the state. Then I could basically "rent" them out to UIL schools so they could win games and championships. They would still be UIL since some of the team are UIL sponsored.

Its possible UIL makes exceptions for robots, but I doubt its the case. Its probably going to end up being more strict if anything and only allow students from 1 high school, killing conglomerate teams.

[Drakxii]

Originally Posted by JohnSchneider

This is a holdover from competitive sports in UIL and probably will not see change.

For instance if this extended to football, I could open up "Johns private school for football" and recruit (things normal high schools cannot do) the best players in the state. Then I could basically "rent" them out to UIL schools so they could win games and championships. They would still be UIL since some of the team are UIL sponsored.

Its possible UIL makes exceptions for robots, but I doubt its the case. Its probably going to end up being more strict if anything and only allow students from 1 high school, killing conglomerate teams.

True, but the current rules allows for conglomerate teams of students from any number of UIL schools so long as they don't have any non UIL members.

[FBHS_Robotics]

Originally Posted by wireties

With respect, I think you underestimate the leverage, being a UIL sport, brings to local teams. It is already happening at our school. Informed that the Dallas competition was used to calculate points for the UIL State Championship we got transportation and other things paid by the school.

Principals prioritize UIL sports and clubs. All UIL activities contribute points to the sponsoring school. A successful robotics program might be pulled under the UIL blanket quickly - more "points", more prestige. Of course a principal or a team might chose to be non-UIL, even at a UIL eligible school. That is true of any sport or club.

I guess I am luckier than most than. My school pays for much of my travel and my equipment even though we are not UIL.

And since you bring up the "points" for UIL, it brings me back to my issue on the FTC side where they are letting multiple teams from a single school compete. UIL is going against the one school, one team policy it has for every other team event.

[Mr. Rip]

FRC 1477 has a student on the drive team that is from a non-UIL school. Looks like we will be applying for one of those ten open slots.

We also have students from multiple high schools and at least one from another school district. I think we are okay with respect to the former but I'm not sure about the latter.

[FBHS_Robotics]

Originally Posted by JohnSchneider

This is a holdover from competitive sports in UIL and probably will not see change.

For instance if this extended to football, I could open up "Johns private school for football" and recruit (things normal high schools cannot do) the best players in the state. Then I could basically "rent" them out to UIL schools so they could win games and championships. They would still be UIL since some of the team are UIL sponsored.

Its possible UIL makes exceptions for robots, but I doubt its the case. Its probably going to end up being more strict if anything and only allow students from 1 high school, killing conglomerate teams.

But this doesn't address the issue of multiple teams from one school. I know that FRC has the conglomerate issue but FTC has the multi-team issue. I can't send multiple computer science teams to a UIL competition so why should I be able to send multiple robotics teams.

[JohnSchneider]

Originally Posted by FBHS_Robotics

But this doesn't address the issue of multiple teams from one school. I know that FRC has the conglomerate issue but FTC has the multi-team issue. I can't send multiple computer science teams to a UIL competition so why should I be able to send multiple robotics teams.

This is a pilot. Rules are subject to change. All we can do is provide feedback and hope they bother enough to read it

[Coach Norm]

Originally Posted by JohnSchneider

This is a pilot. Rules are subject to change. All we can do is provide feedback and hope they bother enough to read it

I have had great response from David Trussell with UIL when I call or email him in regards to UIL and robotics. David has been working with FIRST on this project for quite a while.