INsight: Indiana State Championships

[HenryBlack]

Finals Match 1: https://youtu.be/fwnnv3AKi8I
Finals Match 2: https://youtu.be/CDKZ8zo4ubA

While you might just see simple defense, I see a coordinated strategy by the CyberCards! At first, it seems like it might have been a happy accident in the first match. Perhaps it was! But a second time? In two matches? Too strategic to be an accident!

Notice how in the second match, 1524 allows 447 to slip into the courtyard in order to wait for 1501... Strategic!

1501 had previously had little to no issues with their treads before the finals! And then twice in two matches!

What is odd, however, is this was extremely similar to Finals Match 3 of Perry Meridian! Take a look!: https://youtu.be/L8mz-pHRbJ8
Ramming the side of a robot to play defense in the neutral zone... Looks exactly the same!

The key difference being... 1501 was red-carded and disqualified! For extending into the frame perimeter and causing damage to 1024... Wait a second... Isn't that what 1529 did to 1501? Twice?

[logank013]

Originally Posted by HenryBlack

Finals Match 1: https://youtu.be/fwnnv3AKi8I
Finals Match 2: https://youtu.be/CDKZ8zo4ubA

While you might just see simple defense, I see a coordinated strategy by the CyberCards! At first, it seems like it might have been a happy accident in the first match. Perhaps it was! But a second time? In two matches? Too strategic to be an accident!

Notice how in the second match, 1524 allows 447 to slip into the courtyard in order to wait for 1501... Strategic!

1501 had previously had little to no issues with their treads before the finals! And then twice in two matches!

What is odd, however, is this was extremely similar to Finals Match 3 of Perry Meridian! Take a look!: https://youtu.be/L8mz-pHRbJ8
Ramming the side of a robot to play defense in the neutral zone... Looks exactly the same!

The key difference being... 1501 was red-carded and disqualified! For extending into the frame perimeter and causing damage to 1024... Wait a second... Isn't that what 1529 did to 1501? Twice?

Sorry it seems like I'm defending 1529 so much. I love 1501 and 1529 but 1529 had many reasons to target 1501. They had the best high goal average on the alliance. They were tall. And last of all, they were the team that would have been most affected by slowing cycle times from impact. I find your targeting at 1529 not very well thought out with inconclusive evidence.

Edit: After watching match 2 again, 1529 hit 447 as well. They weren't just targeting 1501. Their goal was to slow cycle times. In the first match, 1529 hit 1501 3 times and the tread came off. In the second match, they hit 1501 2 or 3 times when their tread popped off. If you look at the head ref, he is counting pin seconds. 1529 was obviously not trying to pin 1501 seeing as they never really pinned them for more than 2 seconds which is very normal.

Also, the fact that the wonderful referee crew didn't seem to even consider a card tells me what 1529 was doing was probably very legal. The referee crew in IN has been amazing and they really knows their rules. They would have easily been able to pick up on a strategy aimed at intentional harm.

[HenryBlack]

Originally Posted by logank013

Also, the fact that the wonderful referee crew didn't seem to even consider a card tells me what 1529 was doing was probably very legal. The referee crew in IN has been amazing and they really knows their rules. They would have easily been able to pick up on a strategy aimed at intentional harm.

For the untrained eye, could you please tell me what 1501 did in Finals 3 of Perry Meridian that looked like they wanted to intentionally harm 1024? Especially when compared to the finals matches of State Champs!

[AquaMorph]

Originally Posted by HenryBlack

For the untrained eye, could you please tell me what 1501 did in Finals 3 of Perry Meridian that looked like they wanted to intentionally harm 1024? Especially when compared to the finals matches of State Champs!

I went back and watched that match and I don't think that deserved a red card but the rules leave that decision to the head referee. So that's why calls can be so inconsistent from event to event.

[logank013]

Originally Posted by HenryBlack

For the untrained eye, could you please tell me what 1501 did in Finals 3 of Perry Meridian that looked like they wanted to intentionally harm 1024? Especially when compared to the finals matches of State Champs!

Look at finals match 3. Look at 111 seconds left. 1501's whole left front corner is inside of 1024's robot. This by rule is a red card foul. Intentional? Absolutely not. This is because 1501's bumpers are high. 1529's robot is super low and never reached inside of 1501's robot. The card on 1501 at Perry was because of reaching inside of their robot. Not because of intentional harm! Not to sound rude but you aren't understanding the rules correctly. Reaching inside of a robot and playing tough defense are two very very different things. End of story.

[BoilerMentor]

So, all this recent conversation is interesting and all, but I have to point something out, or ask a question I guess.

DID ANYONE GET A PICTURE OF THE MONKEY?

Seriously, this has to be the first time in FIRST history a literal monkey had to be removed from an event. It might even be the first time a monkey has ever even been at an event?

This banana for scale thing is getting out of hand.

[logank013]

Originally Posted by BoilerMentor

So, all this recent conversation is interesting and all, but I have to point something out, or ask a question I guess.

DID ANYONE GET A PICTURE OF THE MONKEY?

Seriously, this has to be the first time in FIRST history a literal monkey had to be removed from an event. It might even be the first time a monkey has ever even been at an event?

This banana for scale thing is getting out of hand.

Can you explain what happened? I missed this entirely.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by BoilerMentor

So, all this recent conversation is interesting and all, but I have to point something out, or ask a question I guess.

DID ANYONE GET A PICTURE OF THE MONKEY?

Seriously, this has to be the first time in FIRST history a literal monkey had to be removed from an event. It might even be the first time a monkey has ever even been at an event?

This banana for scale thing is getting out of hand.

Guys. All this talk about the finals is great and all, but I need to know about this. This is of the utmost importance.

[BoilerMentor]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Guys. All this talk about the finals is great and all, but I need to know about this. This is of the utmost importance.

Nobody has a picture of the monkey... This is devastating news.

[Gefowl]

Originally Posted by BoilerMentor

So, all this recent conversation is interesting and all, but I have to point something out, or ask a question I guess.

DID ANYONE GET A PICTURE OF THE MONKEY?

Seriously, this has to be the first time in FIRST history a literal monkey had to be removed from an event. It might even be the first time a monkey has ever even been at an event?

This banana for scale thing is getting out of hand.

This is the monkey business everyone should be talking about.

[Carolyn_Grace]

Originally Posted by Gefowl

This is the monkey business everyone should be talking about.

I heard it was a tiny monkey too. And that there were bananas.
Not sure if they were "for scale" though...

[Gefowl]

Originally Posted by Carolyn_Grace

I heard it was a tiny monkey too. And that there were bananas.
Not sure if they were "for scale" though...

Maybe the banana's were in scale for the monkey. I can't imagine a small
monkey eating a normal sized banana.

Did a zoo bring the monkey or did someone from a team bring it? a little curious

[Chris_Elston]

I am sorry that this thread has turn into something to take away from the ENTIRE State of Indiana, and is leaving a negative taste about who we really are in Indiana perspectively to outsiders. The teams in Indiana are UPSTANDING examples of what Gracious and Professionalism are. It is unfortunate that sometimes comments are made like these that aren't necessarily the viewpoints of the team(s) mentioned. The last time I had to post back on CD was exactly the same reasons back in 2010 when "Rosie stuffed THRUST". While everyone can debate the rules on what is right or wrong, what is done is done and we are already moving forward.

Sure we "aren't happy" with the outcome, but can you blame us? I mean personally, I was extra emotional this time around because of Perry. Did you see a negative post about Perry on CD? No...why not? Because everyone knew it wasn't intentional and they way the rules are this year just sucked. What did I do about it? I did the right thing and emailed FIRST three very blunt "constructive" suggestions. I didn't complain in my feedback, I gave them some suggestions how to communicate better to the teams and volunteers. They got my feedback and I am sure they will consider my suggestions to prevent anything like that from happening in the future.

Factually the first time 1529 hit us in FM1 was bumper to bumper and caused our Rhino track to de-rail, totally LEGAL in my opinion hence rendering us useless the rest of the match. I was ok with that one. We had to take a timeout and barely made it back on the field. It didn't appear to me that the winning alliance even knew what they had done. The second time it happened, I can assure you, if anyone of you was in my shoes, you would be as upset as I was especially when the same EXACT thing happened, exactly the same EXACT way. I said some things face-to-face to some coaches I regretted DEEPLY as my first response to them field side, only because I wanted to know myself if it was intentional in the heat of the moment to de-rail our Rhino track a second time. After I said the things I said, PRIVATELY to the coaches (the best way to understand a situation), I saw their reactions and I knew they were genuine. I don't normally get emotional, but again, I hope you understand why I was extra sensitive because of what I had already went through with my team this season. I apologize to the coaches (twice) because I wanted to know, even though I could not at the time make it sound "professional" the first time it came out of my mouth at the heat of the moment. Yes even sometimes I mess up....

In no way are the comments above, reflect the feelings of Team 1501. I am sorry that "HenryBlack" and "RTFM2016" has said the things they have said. They have a right to any opinion just as anyone else does. I don't know who you are, even if you are a member of 1501 or not. If you are a member of 1501, I am sorry that I have failed you as a mentor of our team to be humble and understand that things can happen in real life even beyond robotics. I hope that whoever you are, you can look past this and see some very positive light. After all, we are still going to World Championship...some teams have NEVER BEEN, like 1529...

In one way, it's been a long time struggle of 1529 to get to this point. You see our team number is 1501 and they are 1529. We are next to them, side-by-side in the pits at every single event, every single year. We have watched them struggle as we grew together over the past 12 years. We have watched them win some small battles, but their team still moved on and came back year after year. Recently Danny stepped up to mentor them and helped them get moving into a positive direction. I've seen years when there wasn't a robot fully assembled in the bag. We've loaned them parts, tools and we've helped them as much as we can. Finally both 1529 and 4103 got a break to play in the finals to come out of a long slump of pains and struggles, and from Indiana's standpoint, we are proud of them for making it into the finals and winning State Championship and going to the World Championship for the first time. That is the most positive thing that has happened that they deserve that chance to compete. You see carma had it, that it didn't matter if we won or lost, 1501 was going to make it into Worlds, but that's the way the monkey got away.

1529 showed us that we better figure out how to improve our Rhino tracks before Worlds because that could happen again. (If you have a Rhino track, take notes...) We took a risk of using a product without knowing any previous field history and we learn from these failures and make improvements to move on. The Rhino track failure is our responsibility, we assumed the risk and no one should be blamed for our risk. The treads have 71 STRONGHOLD matches on them, FOUR...TOUGH...EVENTS... They look "rough""worn to the white in small spots""small de-lams on the edges""the inside rib is ate up", we had debated on changing them before State and didn't because of time and pain level, but will now change the treads for Worlds. There is also a learning curve of "tension". They are designed with a center rib to keep them from de-railing, but only when "properly" tensioned. We are still trying to understand the best tension and how it affects crossing certain defenses. Maybe we didn't tension it right, all things we are checking into to understand the product better before Worlds. All things that are our responsibility and no one else is to blame, not even the supplier of the product. Just because I buy a new car and wreck it doesn't mean it's the car maker's fault I wrecked the car is it?

Definitely if life gives you lemons, make lemonade. Try not and point fingers and cause negative energy. That's not who we are in the State of Indiana. I would not want to compete anywhere else in the USA because I know all of the mentors and teams in the state try and help each other out the best we can because we are all on the same page to see that in the end, we stand together and we inspire the students for the future.

[BoilerMentor]

Mike Taylor and Chris Elston proving why they have their respective WFFAs. Hats off gentlemen. See you both at worlds. I couldn't be more excited for the showing Indiana is going to be making this year.

[Wayne Doenges]

Originally Posted by Chris_Elston

In no way are the comments above, reflect the feelings of Team 1501. I am sorry that "HenryBlack" and "RTFM2016" has said the things they have said. They have a right to any opinion just as anyone else does. I don't know who you are, even if you are a member of 1501 or not. If you are a member of 1501, I am sorry that I have failed you as a mentor of our team to be humble and understand that things can happen in real life even beyond robotics. I hope that whoever you are, you can look past this and see some very positive light. After all, we are still going to World Championship...some teams have NEVER BEEN, like 1529...

In one way, it's been a long time struggle of 1529 to get to this point. You see our team number is 1501 and they are 1529. We are next to them, side-by-side in the pits at every single event, every single year. We have watched them struggle as we grew together over the past 12 years. We have watched them win some small battles, but their team still moved on and came back year after year. Recently Danny stepped up to mentor them and helped them get moving into a positive direction. I've seen years when there wasn't a robot fully assembled in the bag. We've loaned them parts, tools and we've helped them as much as we can. Finally both 1529 and 4103 got a break to play in the finals to come out of a long slump of pains and struggles, and from Indiana's standpoint, we are proud of them for making it into the finals and winning State Championship and going to the World Championship for the first time. That is the most positive thing that has happened that they deserve that chance to compete. You see karma had it, that it didn't matter if we won or lost, 1501 was going to make it into Worlds, but that's the way the monkey got away.

What he said