FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)

[grstex]

Originally Posted by indieFan

No, I don't view NEMO the same way. First, it is directly involved in FIRST. Second, many of the issues that are brought up are pertinent to the running of a team that engineering mentors aren't necessarily aware of. Third, I don't believe they started out as a group of people that felt disenfranchised. I believe it started as a group of people trying to figure out how they could contribute to teams and FIRST to advance the program.

Two other things is like to state:
1. I am an ally of LGBT+. I am only trying to raise questions about this idea to make people think about whether it truly is the best thing.
2. Instead of the logo being as it currently is, I'd suggest making it

LGBT+
in
FIRST

The way the logo currently appears, it seems as though this is an officially sanctioned FIRST concept/blog.

My only point was that groups like this aren't necessarily exclusionary. In college I was a member of the Society of Hispanic Professional Engineers, despite being a caucasian non-engineer major. I was welcomed with open arms and had a blast. That experience is what informs my perspective on such matters.

I hear your concern. At least one poster on this thread has expressed negative feelings about this idea. That's fine, its not for them. It's for people like the OP, and allies like you and me, if we choose to join.

[TheModMaster8]

Originally Posted by mrnoble

And Aura can earn respect for her/his/their opinion when he/she/they can drop the anonymous status.

You really can't blame this person for not wanting to revile their identity or team Info, it has come to a point in society these days, that if you don't except the politically "Correct" views, then you are labeled a homophobic/intolerant/racist/bigoted fool. it's sad to see this as, when they are only sharing their opinion as you all are sharing yours. if people weren't so thin skinned and could take some criticism from time to time, this world would be a little more calm.

My 2 cents on this matter.

[TheModMaster8]

Originally Posted by the_godfaubel

First off, I would like to say that I love the blog idea. But, I would like to make a point after just listening to what Andy Baker had to say at the Indiana District Championship.

Those of you who are saying that FIRST is only about STEM couldn't be any further from what it truly is about. While you might only see students building robots and learning about STEM, you miss that we, as mentors, are trying to build better individuals. We teach them that sometimes failure is an inevitable step towards success. They need to understand that everything is not always going to going their way. Like any team, they need to learn to work together to achieve their goals. It's an application to the real world that you're not always going to like everyone that you work with. They learn to lean on and trust their teammates when they need to get through those tough times. A team, if built right, is like a family. True family will accept anyone for who they are, no matter what. To quote Dean Kamen off of the FIRST website, "FIRST is more than robots. The robots are a vehicle for students to learn important life skills. Kids often come in not knowing what to expect- of the program nor of themselves. They leave, even after the first season, with a vision, with confidence, and with a sense that they can create their own future."

So, we eventually get to this idea for an LGBT blog for fellow FIRSTers. I don't know if many of you have been paying attention to the real world, but some people are saying some pretty cruel things about their community. Young people see what these people are saying and some of them are from the LGBT community. They get scared that they won't be accepted because of who they are and that's just not right. So, if this blog helps even one student by letting them know that they are not alone and are strong enough, then it's a perfect idea. You know what, if you don't agree with it, that's totally fine, but don't go complaining about how it doesn't represent FIRST because it absolutely does. If you don't like the blog idea, don't read it! No one is going to force you to.

To conclude, I am going to call out anybody who wants to exclude people because of how they look, who they love, or what gender they are. We need the world to be a more accepting place, and if you're preaching the opposite, well, you're part of the problem.

I loved working with your guys team at competitions over the past 5 years and I have loads of respect for you all, and while I don't want to start and argument with you i also cant ignore it as well,

part in question: "We need the world to be a more accepting place, and if you're preaching the opposite, well, you're part of the problem"

couldn't your statement go the other way as well? until lately in society, the opposite was true was it not? Don't get me wrong, I don't hate or dislike people that are (whatever the politically correct term for LGBT is).

The other part in question:" They get scared that they won't be accepted because of who they are and that's just not right"

Who cares if you're excepted by others? as soon as you derive your happiness or joy/pleasures from others, is the same time you set yourself up for sadness and disappointment. if these people don't like you for who you are, then are they really people you would want for friends anyways? wouldn't you rather have someone that accepts you for who you are rather then someone who has been told that they must except others or they are racist, ext.? these are just my thoughts on this matter. and i hope to see you all at worlds.

[Liam Fay]

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8

I loved working with your guys team at competitions over the past 5 years and I have loads of respect for you all, and while I don't want to start and argument with you i also cant ignore it as well,

part in question: "We need the world to be a more accepting place, and if you're preaching the opposite, well, you're part of the problem"

couldn't your statement go the other way as well? until lately in society, the opposite was true was it not? Don't get me wrong, I don't hate or dislike people that are (whatever the politically correct term for LGBT is).

The other part in question:" They get scared that they won't be accepted because of who they are and that's just not right"

Who cares if you're excepted by others? as soon as you derive your happiness or joy/pleasures from others, is the same time you set yourself up for sadness and disappointment. if these people don't like you for who you are, then are they really people you would want for friends anyways? wouldn't you rather have someone that accepts you for who you are rather then someone who has been told that they must except others or they are racist, ext.? these are just my thoughts on this matter. and i hope to see you all at worlds.

Seeking acceptance from others is part of human nature. To think that needing others is setting oneself up for sadness is very unhealthy and denies the facts about being human. The friend argument doesn't quite measure up, either. Sure, we'd rather have people that accept us for who we are. But what if we love robotics and don't want to have to leave?

[mrnoble]

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8

You really can't blame this person for not wanting to revile their identity or team Info, it has come to a point in society these days, that if you don't except the politically "Correct" views, then you are labeled a homophobic/intolerant/racist/bigoted fool. it's sad to see this as, when they are only sharing their opinion as you all are sharing yours. if people weren't so thin skinned and could take some criticism from time to time, this world would be a little more calm.

My 2 cents on this matter.

Aura has remained anonymous through several rounds of posts in which he/she/they made comments they she/he/they said would not reflect well on their/her/his team (correctly so). Anonymity may have served a purpose for this person but it doesn't lend them any respectability.

[Mr_Moko]

I see that there is some confrontation on this thread, though that was to be expected in all honesty.
When making the initial post I expected some people to disagree with the idea of having this blog and just because they do that does not mean you should call them out on it.

As noble as it may be to retort to someone's negative remark I'd advise against it as I personally dislike watching people argue. We should just let everyone post their opinions, concerns and questions about this idea and let it be that.

-----------

On a very different note, there is a new logo which is most likely temporary. So any feedback on that would be appreciated!
MKII of logo HERE

[TheModMaster8]

Originally Posted by Liam Fay

Seeking acceptance from others is part of human nature. To think that needing others is setting oneself up for sadness is very unhealthy and denies the facts about being human. The friend argument doesn't quite measure up, either. Sure, we'd rather have people that accept us for who we are. But what if we love robotics and don't want to have to leave?

Seeking acceptance comes in may forms, either through money, objects, friends or religion. so yes, in a way it is apart of human nature to find acceptance, however. i should have clarified my meaning of putting happiness in others, I meant putting happiness/acceptance in friendships will normaly fail given enough time.however you normal can find both of these in other forms of relationships, I.e spouse or your kids/parents, (these are normal the ones that last forever) as the saying goes. "friends come and go but family is forever." secondly I don't think I said anything about leaving, though i may be wrong. nor was/am I suggesting it. just because no one excepts your belief in sexuality, doesn't mean they don't except you. Not everyone will see eye to eye on certain matters, and sometimes this needs to be said during a conversation, it reminds both parties that you can still be friends even if you don't agree on certain matters.

[TheModMaster8]

Originally Posted by mrnoble

Aura has remained anonymous through several rounds of posts in which he/she/they made comments they she/he/they said would not reflect well on their/her/his team (correctly so). Anonymity may have served a purpose for this person but it doesn't lend them any respectability.

Respect's definition varies depending upon the person in question. some may find respect in the fact that this person is going against what is now becoming the norm, others that disagree with the person's perspective and have no respect towards them. also it is truly sad and incorrectly wrong to hold everyone on a team accountable for the actions that one or a few have done, I'm sure you can see this in our society today can you not?

[mrnoble]

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8

Respect's definition varies depending upon the person in question. some may find respect in the fact that this person is going against what is now becoming the norm, others that disagree with the person's perspective and have no respect towards them. also it is truly sad and incorrectly wrong to hold everyone on a team accountable for the actions that one or a few have done, I'm sure you can see this in our society today can you not?

Sifting through to understand your meaning. If you are asking whether it's okay for a team member to anonymously post negative things on CD (including other subjects besides LGBT, look at Aura's own history) with the stated purpose of the anonymity being that they will avoid consequences from the team and the community, then no. It's not okay.

[asid61]

Originally Posted by Mr_Moko

I see that there is some confrontation on this thread, though that was to be expected in all honesty.
When making the initial post I expected some people to disagree with the idea of having this blog and just because they do that does not mean you should call them out on it.

As noble as it may be to retort to someone's negative remark I'd advise against it as I personally dislike watching people argue. We should just let everyone post their opinions, concerns and questions about this idea and let it be that.

-----------

On a very different note, there is a new logo which is most likely temporary. So any feedback on that would be appreciated!
MKII of logo HERE

Sorry your thread got derailed. It was almost inevitable, this being CD.
Digging the new logos! The second variation in that album looks good on the dark background.

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8

then you are labeled a homophobic/intolerant/racist/bigoted fool.

Typically it's the homophobes, intolerants, racists, and bigots that are labelled as homophobes, intolerants, racists, and bigots. Having an opinion and being one or more of those are not mutually exclusive. There's a difference between freely speaking your mind and actively trying to shut down conversation, the latter of which Aura is trying to do.

[The other Gabe]

Interested to see how this progresses. Definitely an issue about which I haven't heard too much

Originally Posted by indieFan

There is a time and a place to discuss various things. An event about Science and Technology just doesn't strike me as the right time and place for LGBT+ discussions.

The same would be true for racism, anti-semitism, pro-life/pro-choice, etc.

science does not exclude you from talking about other issues. no one should ever ignore other things just because it isn't their main focus. I'm a history major who is also an active FIRST volunteer. events about science and Technology have no relevance in my field.

Imagine if only scientists cared about global warming.

Originally Posted by indieFan

If you want to have a discussion about diversity and inclusion, shouldn't it be that we are all human and deserve similar opportunities? By creating separate blogs/posts/groups for each category, aren't you actually contributing to the lack of diversity and inclusion?

The issue with saying "we're all human" and "we all have issues" is that you're whitewashing those issues and ignoring them. What I have run into as a Jew is very different than the environment a homosexual, trans person, black person, etc. have experienced. trying to lump them all together removes our ability to understand how anti-semitism (and anti-Israeli sentiment, which is a huge issue right now) differs from racism differs from homophobia.

Originally Posted by Aura_

The thing that I believe that everyone is currently overlooking right now is how this topic irrelevant to the nature of FIRST. I believe this post is just to present an uproar in the FIRST community to unite over some pointless propaganda for a new blog.

It might just be possible that you're inciting more of an uproar by being so belligerent here. if you find it irrelevant, why bother to comment?

[Zach O]

Hey Josh. I think this is a cool idea. These types of resources in FIRST/FRC are a fantastic way to provide support and community.

People that share my opinion also see the value in these types of communities. Minorities can often feel discouraged, underrepresented, discriminated, and excluded. These types of communities won't eliminate these these issues, but they're a great way to provide a sense of inclusion where it otherwise might be missing.

[Madison]

Let's keep the discussion focused on the blog, please. The identity behind other, anonymous accounts is irrelevant to this discussion.

[Mr_Moko]

Originally Posted by Zach O

Hey Josh. I think this is a cool idea. These types of resources in FIRST/FRC are a fantastic way to provide support and community.

People that share my opinion also see the value in these types of communities. Minorities can often feel discouraged, underrepresented, discriminated, and excluded. These types of communities won't eliminate these these issues, but they're a great way to provide a sense of inclusion where it otherwise might be missing.

Like you said, the issues will almost certainly be there, and we hope to mitigate at least some of the issues in the long run. Hopefully this blog gets enough support so that such an accomplishment can be made!

Originally Posted by Madison

Let's keep the discussion focused on the blog, please. The identity behind other, anonymous accounts is irrelevant to this discussion.

Thank you for agreeing with that.