INsight: Indiana State Championships

[bam-bam]

You all are correct. 1529 never physically extended in the frame perimeter, and that was how I worded my post. I won't correct my OP, but I'll clarify here.

To give a small disclaimer: no, I am not associated with any of the teams at the moment in my sig, including 1529, 1501, and 461. This was all my opinion.

Yes, Taylor is correct. I was on the field, queuing. I had a direct look at how 1501's threads came off. I don't have any proof except for Taylor's words, a green sharpie marker, and a highlighter, so.... take that as you will.

I had thought initially that 1529 had popped the tracks off by contacting the tracks when 1501's and 1529's drivebases aligned fairly closely. 1501 had a small clearance between the frame perimeter planes (bumpers) and tracks, so touching the tracks would mean technically passing the frame perimeter. 1529 was able to do this due to how low the bumpers were, and did contact the tracks several times while 1501 was immobilized. I was surprised to see no red card called. If anything, it was an accident.

What happened at Perry is relevant here, since I brought it up.... 1501 had played defense against 1024, popped one of their tanks with a corner of a bumper, and red carded their alliance that match. The score showed that 1501 would have won if not for that fault. If anything, it was an accident.

See how similar the two circumstances are? I'm just saying I know quite a few people on 1501 were frustrated at this. The refs were fantastic with their jobs, and the end of the day, it's the final call. I can't speak for 1501 as a whole, but I'm okay with that.

That was the meaning I had meant to convey. No attacks meant to be made.

[bam-bam]

Great weather, great venue, great people, great robots, great matches, great.... Well, everything.

I'm so incredibly surprised to see how many teams managed to add a consistent high goal shot. From off the top of my head.... 447, 1720, 5484, 3147... It speaks a lot when when of the top shooting robots in 4982 falls all the way to 7th pick.

Kokomo's so wonderful! The Memorial Gym was a great place to play the state championship. I hope Indiana FIRST brings the event back to Kokomo next year. Thanks to 45, 292, and 3940 for hosting.

Congrats to the state champions 4103-1024-1529, in particular to 1529. When I left the team, all that were left was 4 mentors and 11 or so students... which whittled down to 1 mentor and 7 students the following year. To go from that to winning their first blue banner in their first finals.... I never thought I would be able to see it live. Here's to a brighter future.

Congrats to 461 and 1747 advancing to world champs. You make Purdue proud.

I'll echo Peyton's words. The fact that 4982, 234, 1741, 71, 3940, 5403, 3176..... Well, too many to name, won't advance is sad. The first four in particular would do incredibly well at a regional.

Congrats to 868 (Chairman's), 135 (EI), and 6012 (RAS).

Congrats to all the alliances for incredible matches. It was very fun to watch all the interesting strategies put into play. Low goal then double capture (234-71-1741), drafting a team with no ball control (461-1747-3176), to the top alliances (1501-868-447 and 4103-1024-1529). I have no idea how 1529 and 447 were left for the final two.

EDIT: And thank you to the wonderful queuers I worked with this weekend. This was something I enjoyed doing greatly!

[Theseusgoats]

Originally Posted by Hope O'Connor

I don't think that's very fair of you to say who is more "deserving" of going through or not. Both 447 and 1529 played really well so that wasn't necessary to say.

Sorry if I came off rude, I only meant to say that as an alliance, 1529 seemed to have a stronger strategy than 447. Overall they were just more effective in fulfilling their role.

[efoote868]

I'm disappointed for losing in the finals at a super competitive district championship, but that's how it goes. I don't think armchair/bleacher refereeing does much good, the referees were right there to see what happened, they discussed the game play and made their call.

Congratulations to 4103, 1024 and 1529 on your impressive game play, I'm looking forward to playing with you or against you on Einstein this year

It's also impressive that the teams during qualifications averaged 2.6 out of 3.0 qualification points per match. While Indiana might not be one of the biggest states for FRC, we're certainly right there in terms of competitiveness. To the rest of our ambassadors going to St. Louis, I'm certain you'll make us proud. To the rest of Indiana, we'll see you at IRI or next year!

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by BoilerMentor

So, all this recent conversation is interesting and all, but I have to point something out, or ask a question I guess.

DID ANYONE GET A PICTURE OF THE MONKEY?

Seriously, this has to be the first time in FIRST history a literal monkey had to be removed from an event. It might even be the first time a monkey has ever even been at an event?

This banana for scale thing is getting out of hand.

Guys. All this talk about the finals is great and all, but I need to know about this. This is of the utmost importance.

[BoilerMentor]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Guys. All this talk about the finals is great and all, but I need to know about this. This is of the utmost importance.

Nobody has a picture of the monkey... This is devastating news.

[Gefowl]

Originally Posted by BoilerMentor

So, all this recent conversation is interesting and all, but I have to point something out, or ask a question I guess.

DID ANYONE GET A PICTURE OF THE MONKEY?

Seriously, this has to be the first time in FIRST history a literal monkey had to be removed from an event. It might even be the first time a monkey has ever even been at an event?

This banana for scale thing is getting out of hand.

This is the monkey business everyone should be talking about.

[Carolyn_Grace]

Originally Posted by Gefowl

This is the monkey business everyone should be talking about.

I heard it was a tiny monkey too. And that there were bananas.
Not sure if they were "for scale" though...

[Gefowl]

Originally Posted by Carolyn_Grace

I heard it was a tiny monkey too. And that there were bananas.
Not sure if they were "for scale" though...

Maybe the banana's were in scale for the monkey. I can't imagine a small
monkey eating a normal sized banana.

Did a zoo bring the monkey or did someone from a team bring it? a little curious

[Chris_Elston]

I am sorry that this thread has turn into something to take away from the ENTIRE State of Indiana, and is leaving a negative taste about who we really are in Indiana perspectively to outsiders. The teams in Indiana are UPSTANDING examples of what Gracious and Professionalism are. It is unfortunate that sometimes comments are made like these that aren't necessarily the viewpoints of the team(s) mentioned. The last time I had to post back on CD was exactly the same reasons back in 2010 when "Rosie stuffed THRUST". While everyone can debate the rules on what is right or wrong, what is done is done and we are already moving forward.

Sure we "aren't happy" with the outcome, but can you blame us? I mean personally, I was extra emotional this time around because of Perry. Did you see a negative post about Perry on CD? No...why not? Because everyone knew it wasn't intentional and they way the rules are this year just sucked. What did I do about it? I did the right thing and emailed FIRST three very blunt "constructive" suggestions. I didn't complain in my feedback, I gave them some suggestions how to communicate better to the teams and volunteers. They got my feedback and I am sure they will consider my suggestions to prevent anything like that from happening in the future.

Factually the first time 1529 hit us in FM1 was bumper to bumper and caused our Rhino track to de-rail, totally LEGAL in my opinion hence rendering us useless the rest of the match. I was ok with that one. We had to take a timeout and barely made it back on the field. It didn't appear to me that the winning alliance even knew what they had done. The second time it happened, I can assure you, if anyone of you was in my shoes, you would be as upset as I was especially when the same EXACT thing happened, exactly the same EXACT way. I said some things face-to-face to some coaches I regretted DEEPLY as my first response to them field side, only because I wanted to know myself if it was intentional in the heat of the moment to de-rail our Rhino track a second time. After I said the things I said, PRIVATELY to the coaches (the best way to understand a situation), I saw their reactions and I knew they were genuine. I don't normally get emotional, but again, I hope you understand why I was extra sensitive because of what I had already went through with my team this season. I apologize to the coaches (twice) because I wanted to know, even though I could not at the time make it sound "professional" the first time it came out of my mouth at the heat of the moment. Yes even sometimes I mess up....

In no way are the comments above, reflect the feelings of Team 1501. I am sorry that "HenryBlack" and "RTFM2016" has said the things they have said. They have a right to any opinion just as anyone else does. I don't know who you are, even if you are a member of 1501 or not. If you are a member of 1501, I am sorry that I have failed you as a mentor of our team to be humble and understand that things can happen in real life even beyond robotics. I hope that whoever you are, you can look past this and see some very positive light. After all, we are still going to World Championship...some teams have NEVER BEEN, like 1529...

In one way, it's been a long time struggle of 1529 to get to this point. You see our team number is 1501 and they are 1529. We are next to them, side-by-side in the pits at every single event, every single year. We have watched them struggle as we grew together over the past 12 years. We have watched them win some small battles, but their team still moved on and came back year after year. Recently Danny stepped up to mentor them and helped them get moving into a positive direction. I've seen years when there wasn't a robot fully assembled in the bag. We've loaned them parts, tools and we've helped them as much as we can. Finally both 1529 and 4103 got a break to play in the finals to come out of a long slump of pains and struggles, and from Indiana's standpoint, we are proud of them for making it into the finals and winning State Championship and going to the World Championship for the first time. That is the most positive thing that has happened that they deserve that chance to compete. You see carma had it, that it didn't matter if we won or lost, 1501 was going to make it into Worlds, but that's the way the monkey got away.

1529 showed us that we better figure out how to improve our Rhino tracks before Worlds because that could happen again. (If you have a Rhino track, take notes...) We took a risk of using a product without knowing any previous field history and we learn from these failures and make improvements to move on. The Rhino track failure is our responsibility, we assumed the risk and no one should be blamed for our risk. The treads have 71 STRONGHOLD matches on them, FOUR...TOUGH...EVENTS... They look "rough""worn to the white in small spots""small de-lams on the edges""the inside rib is ate up", we had debated on changing them before State and didn't because of time and pain level, but will now change the treads for Worlds. There is also a learning curve of "tension". They are designed with a center rib to keep them from de-railing, but only when "properly" tensioned. We are still trying to understand the best tension and how it affects crossing certain defenses. Maybe we didn't tension it right, all things we are checking into to understand the product better before Worlds. All things that are our responsibility and no one else is to blame, not even the supplier of the product. Just because I buy a new car and wreck it doesn't mean it's the car maker's fault I wrecked the car is it?

Definitely if life gives you lemons, make lemonade. Try not and point fingers and cause negative energy. That's not who we are in the State of Indiana. I would not want to compete anywhere else in the USA because I know all of the mentors and teams in the state try and help each other out the best we can because we are all on the same page to see that in the end, we stand together and we inspire the students for the future.

[BoilerMentor]

Mike Taylor and Chris Elston proving why they have their respective WFFAs. Hats off gentlemen. See you both at worlds. I couldn't be more excited for the showing Indiana is going to be making this year.

[Wayne Doenges]

Originally Posted by Chris_Elston

In no way are the comments above, reflect the feelings of Team 1501. I am sorry that "HenryBlack" and "RTFM2016" has said the things they have said. They have a right to any opinion just as anyone else does. I don't know who you are, even if you are a member of 1501 or not. If you are a member of 1501, I am sorry that I have failed you as a mentor of our team to be humble and understand that things can happen in real life even beyond robotics. I hope that whoever you are, you can look past this and see some very positive light. After all, we are still going to World Championship...some teams have NEVER BEEN, like 1529...

In one way, it's been a long time struggle of 1529 to get to this point. You see our team number is 1501 and they are 1529. We are next to them, side-by-side in the pits at every single event, every single year. We have watched them struggle as we grew together over the past 12 years. We have watched them win some small battles, but their team still moved on and came back year after year. Recently Danny stepped up to mentor them and helped them get moving into a positive direction. I've seen years when there wasn't a robot fully assembled in the bag. We've loaned them parts, tools and we've helped them as much as we can. Finally both 1529 and 4103 got a break to play in the finals to come out of a long slump of pains and struggles, and from Indiana's standpoint, we are proud of them for making it into the finals and winning State Championship and going to the World Championship for the first time. That is the most positive thing that has happened that they deserve that chance to compete. You see karma had it, that it didn't matter if we won or lost, 1501 was going to make it into Worlds, but that's the way the monkey got away.

What he said

[RockRGI]

Originally Posted by Theseusgoats

Also, could we just stop complaining already? The call was controversial but 1501 and 868 made it through anyway. The only team really affected was 447 who deserved to go through less than 1529.

Of all the comments on this thread I find this one to be the one leaving me scratching my head. Why did 447 deserve it less?

What is most important however is that this season, being my son and I's first year, was absolutely amazing. To see what the kids on 447 accomplished firsthand and what all the teams accomplished from event to event was just awesome. While it would have been great to make World's, the journey is what is the most important.

I have enjoyed watching the problem solving, team work, strategy meetings, and execution by all of the teams this year. The willingness for one team to help another, even if they may face them in later matches, brings joy to my heart and tells me there is still good in this world.

Best of luck to all the teams representing Indiana at World's. We had a great run and I am proud of what our kids accomplished. It's not always about whether you win or lose, but how you play the game that matters. I know our kids put everything they had into the process and I am sure the other teams did as well.

See you all in off season events and again next year for a new game!

[Theseusgoats]

Originally Posted by RockRGI

Of all the comments on this thread I find this one to be the one leaving me scratching my head. Why did 447 deserve it less?

What is most important however is that this season, being my son and I's first year, was absolutely amazing. To see what the kids on 447 accomplished firsthand and what all the teams accomplished from event to event was just awesome. While it would have been great to make World's, the journey is what is the most important.

I have enjoyed watching the problem solving, team work, strategy meetings, and execution by all of the teams this year. The willingness for one team to help another, even if they may face them in later matches, brings joy to my heart and tells me there is still good in this world.

Best of luck to all the teams representing Indiana at World's. We had a great run and I am proud of what our kids accomplished. It's not always about whether you win or lose, but how you play the game that matters. I know our kids put everything they had into the process and I am sure the other teams did as well.

See you all in off season events and again next year for a new game!

Agian, sorry if I came off rude but I was just saying that the whole alliance of 1529 just seemed to have had a more well thought out strategy. I'm sure you guys, 1529, as well as pretty much every team tried their best and had a thoroughly enjoyable season.

[RockRGI]

Originally Posted by Theseusgoats

Agian, sorry if I came off rude but I was just saying that the whole alliance of 1529 just seemed to have had a more well thought out strategy. I'm sure you guys, 1529, as well as pretty much every team tried their best and had a thoroughly enjoyable season.

No apology needed, I was simply trying to understand the thought behind the comment. In the finals, once the track slipped on 1501, it was do whatever we could to try to keep up for sure.

I didn't see any team out there this year who deserved it "less" than any other and wondered what you may have seen to come to that conclusion. Of course we were disappointed in the end result, but that is how the cookie crumbled. I didn't see anything improper in the match, and had we been against 1501, we would have likely focused on slowing their cycle times down as well. If you paid attention this season, we had no issue with playing tight defense. The track coming off was fortunate for the blue alliance and unfortunate for our alliance.

It was definitely a fun season, look forward to many more to come.