FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)

[FrankJ]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

What does placing people in rooms according to their identified gender have to do with sexual experimentation? Transgender students are not "social experiments" - they merely have a gender that does not match the one assigned to them at birth.

Not to put words in Chris's mouth. But. I think what he was trying to say is what is essentially a youth field trip is not the place for sexual contact. LBGT, Hetro, ETC. In a perfect world everyone would conduct themselves in a professional manner. The reason why this thread is so long is that we don't live in a perfect world.

[The other Gabe]

Originally Posted by jweston

LGBTQI

what does the "I" stand for? I haven't seen that one before

Originally Posted by FrankJ

Not to put words in Chris's mouth. But. I think what he was trying to say is what is essentially a youth field trip is not the place for sexual contact. LBGT, Hetro, ETC. In a perfect world everyone would conduct themselves in a professional manner. The reason why this thread is so long is that we don't live in a perfect world.

being a Transgender person has nothing to do with sexual contact. it's a matter of feeling that the sex you were assigned at birth was not correct and wanting to be some other gender. People thinking it's about sex is part of the problem here - people's sense of identity should not be boiled down to worrying about them doin the do or whatever. When you think that people are just "acting trans" or whatever for the purpose of sex, you're marginalizing their valid feelings and opinions (sorry if this comes off as hostile or putting words in your mouth, I couldn't think of a better way to phrase it).

[nrgy_blast]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

What does placing people in rooms according to their identified gender have to do with sexual experimentation? Transgender students are not "social experiments" - they merely have a gender that does not match the one assigned to them at birth.

Ultimately, the entire practice of assigning rooms by gender is heteronormative and cisnormative, and it is difficult to get around these issues within the policies of many schools.

If other students of the opposite(mechanical) gender aren't comfortable rooming rooming together, I'm not going to make them. Reaffirming my previous statement, I'm not going to assign anyone to stay with anyone else they're uncomfortable with, no matter the reason. Doing so would be a 'social experiment', and is not what FIRST is here for.

[Carolyn_Grace]

Originally Posted by nrgy_blast

If other students of the opposite(mechanical) gender aren't comfortable rooming rooming together, I'm not going to make them. Reaffirming my previous statement, I'm not going to assign anyone to stay with anyone else they're uncomfortable with, no matter the reason. Doing so would be a 'social experiment', and is not what FIRST is here for.

No where in the personal story (quoted below) does it say that anyone would have been forced into a rooming situation that was uncomfortable except for the poster, who was forced into an uncomfortable rooming situation by being isolated.

Originally Posted by sean-from-5113

Imagine hearing all your friends giggling in their hotel rooms while you are alone and lying awake. No one on the team wanted me to room by myself, my mentors didn't want me by myself, but at the end of the day, the school administration decided for me. I wasn't told about my rooming situation until the day of.

[jweston]

Originally Posted by The other Gabe

what does the "I" stand for? I haven't seen that one before

Intersex. It's alphabet soup. Normally I just say non-heteronormative but a lot of people don't know what that means.

Originally Posted by The other Gabe

being a Transgender person has nothing to do with sexual contact. it's a matter of feeling that the sex you were assigned at birth was not correct and wanting to be some other gender. People thinking it's about sex is part of the problem here - people's sense of identity should not be boiled down to worrying about them doin the do or whatever. When you think that people are just "acting trans" or whatever for the purpose of sex, you're marginalizing their valid feelings and opinions (sorry if this comes off as hostile or putting words in your mouth, I couldn't think of a better way to phrase it).

Room assignments should always come down to two things: 1) what the authorities will allow which sometimes is ignorant and suboptimal but still a reality; and 2) the comfort level of the students staying together as well as the confidence of the mentors that this assignment is not likely to turn into a problem. When we make our room assignments, we think about what the energy of that room is likely to be and try to optimize it to be comfortable and professional.

[FrankJ]

Originally Posted by The other Gabe

...being a Transgender person has nothing to do with sexual contact. it's a matter of feeling that the sex you were assigned at birth was not correct and wanting to be some other gender. People thinking it's about sex is part of the problem here - people's sense of identity should not be boiled down to worrying about them doin the do or whatever. When you think that people are just "acting trans" or whatever for the purpose of sex, you're marginalizing their valid feelings and opinions (sorry if this comes off as hostile or putting words in your mouth, I couldn't think of a better way to phrase it).

Point well taken. (i think) I didn't mean to imply that transgender people think about or act on their sexual desires anymore or less than anybody else. Fortunately for me, I don't do room assignments & besides expecting students and mentors follow the First code conduct, discipline is not one of my first order duties. But. For the mentors that do, inappropriate contact, parent demands are 2 of many issues they have to worry about. This is true regardless of orientation. It is not that they worry any less about hetero contact. Actually probably more so since statistically there is more of that.

[nrgy_blast]

Originally Posted by Carolyn_Grace

No where in the personal story (quoted below) does it say that anyone would have been forced into a rooming situation that was uncomfortable except for the poster, who was forced into an uncomfortable rooming situation by being isolated.

And 'being isolated' is the default situation if no suitable assignments can be made. It's how many (if not most) big corporations travel, by default, and it's how we're forced to assign room if we can't resolve all of the issues, real or perceived.

[dubiousSwain]

If you're not careful, (and even if you are), FIRST can be a very lonely experience. It kills your social life outside of robotics, because after the 3rd or 4th "I can't, I have robotics" people stop asking. At least in my experience. YMMV.

Build season is spending 30-40 hours a week with the same 20 people. After a while you start to get sick of one another. You get caught up in robot building and forget to be friends.

But there's a pay-off. You finish the 6 weeks, you look at each other, and say "We did this, and we did this together". You get a break, and your friendship is stronger because you bent, but you didn't break.

For me, the real reward of robotics is the competitions. Its not only a testament to your skill, but to your teamwork. It takes a village to raise a child, but it takes a team to build a robot. That feeling of being a part of something greater, I don't know about you, but that's what I live for.

Now imagine if you didn't have any of that. Imagine if you gave your life to the team (and I know all of you have), and you finally decided that you could trust your comrades enough to tell them who you really were, and you were ostracized for it. You were quarantined because someone decided that you weren't the effort. No one wanted to make the effort to understand you, and you were punished for being yourself.

Isn't that what were are all in robotics for? Have we lost our identity? Remember how good it felt to finally find a sport that you identified with, that you were finally really good at. Imagine if Dean Kamen had decided to not start FIRST because he didn't want to "divide the athletic community". The whole point of our league is to be inclusive and disruptive.

Everyone who questions the "point" of this blog is questioning the "point" of FIRST. The blog is inclusive and disruptive. This blog is a microcosm for the culture shift we want to bring around in the world at large. Everyone arguing against this idea is arguing for the status quo, and I could imagine a thing further from the mission of FIRST.

[Carolyn_Grace]

Originally Posted by nrgy_blast

And 'being isolated' is the default situation if no suitable assignments can be made. It's how many (if not most) big corporations travel, by default, and it's how we're forced to assign room if we can't resolve all of the issues, real or perceived.

You are taking a student's very real and personal story and making it about other people, about the status quo.

I understand, as a mentor and teacher, that we are held to following the laws of our state and the rules of our administration. But I hope that I never tell a student, "this is how the real world is, so suck it up, kid." Because that's how you sound with your justification.

I want students reading this to know that I'm listening. I'm sorry if you've ever felt isolated. I can't personally change the law, no matter how hard I try, my one vote only goes so far in the southern Midwest, but I will always try to hear you, to listen to you, and to do what I can to make you feel welcome and supported.

I will read this blog, read your stories, learn from you, and be a better mentor because of you. You give me hope. Your diversity brings me joy.

[cadandcookies]

A friend of mine (who is trans) did not feel comfortable posting in this thread, but asked me to post this for them:

Many of the reasons that mentors and other adults don't understand where to room trans students is they don't have a grasp on what it is to be transgender. The first step to creating a team environment that makes it safe enough for LGBT+ students to come out without fear of being ostracized or discriminated against by mentors and team members is learning what LGBT+ people go through. The vocal opponents of this thread (even if not many) deter me even more from outing myself fully in the FIRST community; especially because they are SO DETERMINED to discredit my experiences and their intersection within FIRST. It's obvious by the way this conversation is going that this blog is a necessity, and I applaud the students who felt safe and empowered enough to create and promote it.

Personally, it's a bit disappointing to me that there are still people out there who feel uncomfortable sharing who they are with our community. We can still do better, even if we've come a long way.

[Liam Fay]

Originally Posted by cadandcookies

A friend of mine (who is trans) did not feel comfortable posting in this thread, but asked me to post this for them

This right here should be evidence enough that we need a (forgive me for using the politically charged word) safe space for people to share their experiences.

[Madison]

Originally Posted by nrgy_blast

And 'being isolated' is the default situation if no suitable assignments can be made. It's how many (if not most) big corporations travel, by default, and it's how we're forced to assign room if we can't resolve all of the issues, real or perceived.

Four men are meant to share a hotel room. One of them is black. Another is an unrepentant racist.

Who do you move?

[Mr_Moko]

Originally Posted by cadandcookies

A friend of mine (who is trans) did not feel comfortable posting in this thread, but asked me to post this for them:

Seeing this makes me quite sad and I agree with Liam about this being one of reasons why this blog was started.
FIRST is supposed to be a place for everyone to feel accepted as well as a place to get students into the field of STEM

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I find it interesting to see everyone's views on this, even if it's not something that I exactly agree with
Just remember to try and keep things civil and do your best to respect people's opinions.

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Just a note: We'll be going through staff applications over the next few days, so if anyone wants to apply you should do so now!
App HERE

[bduddy]

Originally Posted by Madison

Four men are meant to share a hotel room. One of them is black. Another is an unrepentant racist.

Who do you move?

I move the racist out of whatever organization I'm an administrator for.

[MooreteP]

Originally Posted by Madison

Four men are meant to share a hotel room. One of them is black. Another is an unrepentant racist.

Who do you move?

Madison, I think this is a more relevant situation:
My Post from the Making STEM a better place for women thread:

Originally Posted by MooreteP

How do you handle room assignments on a field trip to a travel competition when students are openly LBGTQ?
We usually packed 4 students to a room.
When their sexual orientation would be taken into account, the math became more expensive.

The students were cool about it, but us mentors were befuddled.

I am assuming that being an "unrepentant racist" is a lifestyle choice.
You have a binary solution here: Get two rooms. Two team members in each.
But when you have a panoply of situations as has been elucidated here, you may need to get separate rooms for every member of the team.

Fortunately, the students of the 2010's are far more understanding of identities and boundaries than my generation.

Just make sure that us mentors discuss the room assignments, individually, with each student beforehand.
This may maintain a status quo, keep lodging costs down, and hopefully lead to a relatively cohesive team dynamic. (Not the inevitable Robot Romances)

I never thought I would see this discussed on CD, but I think I am glad it has happened.

Thank you Mr_Moko