Tower Strength Raised to 10 for CMP

[billbo911]

What I find interesting is the addition to G41 in the Blue Box.

Do I smell a new strategy to slow down Breaching coming?

[Liu346]

How would you use that to make a new strategy?

[rich2202]

Originally Posted by Liu346

How would you use that to make a new strategy?

Put a boulder in the other alliance's outerworks. It forces the other alliance to clear the boulder before crossing, or cross without a boulder, and hope the boulder follows the robot.

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by rich2202

Put a boulder in the other alliance's outerworks. It forces the other alliance to clear the boulder before crossing, or cross without a boulder, and hope the boulder follows the robot.

Assumedly this would be a G11 infraction.

[Ginger Power]

This change definitely increases the value of defensive robots. Preventing a capture is much more doable during quals. Defensive robots will force mid-teir shooters to think carefully about shooting high and potentially missing out on a capture.

I don't believe this reduces the value of defenders during alliance selections because 2 elite offensive robots should have no trouble weakening the tower on their own. An interesting impact that this could have is with the lower ranked alliances. I could see the need for a 3rd offensive robot to get the capture especially if the top alliances are running with 1 dedicated defender.

[Chak]

Originally Posted by CalTran

Assumedly this would be a G11 infraction.

Imo, putting a boulder in your own defenses would not be a G11 infraction by itself. G11's blue box says

G11 requires an intentional act with limited or no opportunity for the TEAM being acted on to avoid the penalty.

Putting a boulder in your own defenses would be a valid defense strategy then, since the opposing robots can choose to slow down and clear out the boulder to avoid the foul. As I see it, the difference is that the opposing alliance is not forced into committing a foul.

Disclaimer: Just a student's interpretation of the rules. The refs may call it differently.

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Chak

Imo, putting a boulder in your own defenses would not be a G11 infraction by itself. ...
Putting a boulder in your own defenses would be a valid defense strategy then, since the opposing robots can choose to slow down and clear out the boulder to avoid the foul.

Read one rule further.

G12-1 ROBOTS may not deliberately use FIELD elements, e.g. BOULDERS, in an attempt to ease or amplify the challenge associated with other FIELD elements, e.g. DEFENSES. Violation: FOUL. For every five (5) seconds in which the situation is not corrected, FOUL

And its Blue Box:

Example actions that violate G12-1 include, but aren’t limited to the
following: adding BOULDERS to your Moat to make it harder for your
opponents to CROSS the Moat, using a BOULDER to prop up Cheval
de Frise elements, propping open a DEFENSE door with a BOULDER.

[Chak]

Originally Posted by Richard Wallace

Read one rule further.

G12-1 ROBOTS may not deliberately use FIELD elements, e.g. BOULDERS, in an attempt to ease or amplify the challenge associated with other FIELD elements, e.g. DEFENSES. Violation: FOUL. For every five (5) seconds in which the situation is not corrected, FOUL

And its Blue Box:

Example actions that violate G12-1 include, but aren’t limited to the
following: adding BOULDERS to your Moat to make it harder for your
opponents to CROSS the Moat, using a BOULDER to prop up Cheval
de Frise elements, propping open a DEFENSE door with a BOULDER.

Oh. I didn't consider this other rule . This rule would invalidate almost all strategies blocking the defenses with boulders.
But in very few situations, it could be possible to place a boulder to "block" the defense without making it harder. For example, a ball behind the sally port in the outerworks imo does not "amplify" the challenge of driving across the flat part of the sally port.
I would like to Q&A this, but I cannot.

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by Chak

For example, a ball behind the sally port in the outerworks imo does not "amplify" the challenge of driving across the flat part of the sally port.
I would like to Q&A this, but I cannot.

That seems like it's just asking for a controversial Ref foul waiting to happen...

[Rosiebotboss]

I think you all are missing a very valid point. Consider this:
A consistent, accurate high goal shooter, spends a lot of time chasing down boulders. A consistent, fast, robot that can breach most outer works can feed the high goal shooter. Get a ball, drop it in front of the high goal shooter and go get another one. Repeat the cycle. Quickly. Two things happen, the outer works fall and the cycle time for high goal scores drop. Scores go up. Discuss.

[Eric Scheuing]

Originally Posted by Rosiebotboss

I think you all are missing a very valid point. Consider this:
A consistent, accurate high goal shooter, spends a lot of time chasing down boulders. A consistent, fast, robot that can breach most outer works can feed the high goal shooter. Get a ball, drop it in front of the high goal shooter and go get another one. Repeat the cycle. Quickly. Two things happen, the outer works fall and the cycle time for high goal scores drop. Scores go up. Discuss.

What is the third robot doing in this situation? If there is a good defender against the high goal shooter who can do something with the boulders that the feeder bot brings, it would cause the shooter to go chasing boulders down instead of shoot, load, rinse and repeat.

EDIT: Third bot could draw the defender's attention away from the shooter and allow it to do its thing, or remain undefended and make up for the lost cycle time. If the third bot is playing defense, I feel this strategy would get shut down pretty quickly.

[Edxu]

Originally Posted by Eric Scheuing

What is the third robot doing in this situation? If there is a good defender against the high goal shooter who can do something with the boulders that the feeder bot brings, it would cause the shooter to go chasing boulders down instead of shoot, load, rinse and repeat.

If you had a reliable shooter whose limiting action is its defense crossing ability, you could consider running the third robot in tandem with your shooter, setting picks and crossing defenses, but not manipulating balls.

[Breakaway3937]

One of the things you have to remember about low vs high is that it takes 2.5 low goals to = 1 high goal. Look at the following situation. One alliance scores 10 boulders all in the low goal in elims this = 45 points. The opposing alliance shoots just 9 but all high goals this = 45 points. A low goal shooter is really valuable for bringing down the tower, but it is going to take the high goal to win divisions or Einstein. If the high goal shooting alliance previously mentioned scores just one more ball, the swing is 30 points. You cannot just rely on the low goal, at the CMP level you will be out scored on most occasions on Saturday, however you will gain that ranking point in quals which is always wanted. You have to put some boulders in the upper chains. This is going to be a neat addition to offensive and defensive strategy at CMP.

[MamaSpoldi]

Originally Posted by Breakaway3937

One of the things you have to remember about low vs high is that it takes 2.5 low goals to = 1 high goal. Look at the following situation. One alliance scores 10 boulders all in the low goal in elims this = 45 points. The opposing alliance shoots just 9 but all high goals this = 45 points. A low goal shooter is really valuable for bringing down the tower, but it is going to take the high goal to win divisions or Einstein. If the high goal shooting alliance previously mentioned scores just one more ball, the swing is 30 points. You cannot just rely on the low goal, at the CMP level you will be out scored on most occasions on Saturday, however you will gain that ranking point in quals which is always wanted. You have to put some boulders in the upper chains. This is going to be a neat addition to offensive and defensive strategy at CMP.

I think you made a typo...

One alliance scores 10 boulders all in the low goal in elims this = 20 points.

[Peyton Yeung]

Originally Posted by MamaSpoldi

I think you made a typo...

I think they are accounting for a capture.