Being Proactive About Paper Airplanes on Einstein

[mjc49]

Last seasons Einstein matches seemed especially slow due to the lengthy gaps between matches. When I spoke with my team about this thread I was happy to see that the majority of the team agree they want to not participate. With that backing, the team has pledged to not take part in paper airplane throwing this season.

I really hope that the pacing of the finals matches are better this year. Kids, and us more mature kids, are pretty tired and hungry by the time the finals start. Last year I had to escort a couple of kids out to the concourse because they had reached their limit and needed a break.

[synth3tk]

Originally Posted by marshall

I have no idea what that is but I think we are on to something.

So basically, you run the game on a console or PC connected to the internet. You then have a few people (usually 4-8?) connect to a website (jackbox.tv) and enter a code. Those people then become "participants". After they've joined, you can have people go to the website on the phone, tablet or laptop and enter a code to join the game as an "audience" member. I think there's a limit, so we'd have to see if we could get a special build for FIRST.

Anyway, it's just a bunch of minigames, most of which are based around words, answering questions, or drawing things. The "audience" then votes/selects their favorite, and points are given out based on how many people chose yours. Most points at the end of all the rounds for that game wins.

You put the game up on the screen and next thing you know, everybody's on a game show. It's really quite fun. People have played it on Twitch, too, but it's not the same as hearing people laugh or groan in person.

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by synth3tk

I think there's a limit, so we'd have to see if we could get a special build for FIRST.

And here's where random trivia about streamers that I know comes in handy. The game with the largest capacity that Jackbox offers is Lie Swatter, for 1-100 players supposedly, but crashes spectacularly when there's more than 400 players. It would be interesting to try to work with Jackbox (or any other mobile gaming company) for a party game that works with literally thousands of players.

[Rick]

I watched a student dump an 18 gallon tote full of scouting papers over the balcony last year. It was literally dumping trash onto people below. I got into it with an adult on the team who watched it happen and could only shrug thier shoulders.

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by Rick

I watched a student dump an 18 gallon tote full of scouting papers over the balcony last year. It was literally dumping trash onto people below. I got into it with an adult on the team who watched it happen and could only shrug thier shoulders.

I'm not sure the student would be walking out of the dome if that happened on our team...

[hrench]

Originally Posted by nerdrock101

I don't think you'll find many mentors who want to see this continue.

Actually, I'm a mentor that doesn't think this is that big of deal.

Yes, airplanes shouldn't be thrown when important things are happening and they shouldn't have anything but paper in them. But certainly they're not more dangerous than great big beach balls that routinely hit people in the head.

Paper airplanes are
1. an engineering competition
2. a social activity
3. a science demonstration.

I could go on. They're fun.

Yes, we could be staring into our cell phones instead. I prefer this.

Also, yes, OK, it's a big mess. Especially if people bring paper just for this, but in my experience it's been mostly paper from scouting reports, safety 'posters' and re-used paper and I'm mostly unfolding someone else's airplanes and making better ones. First isn't noted for being terribly green. And if you're re-folding planes, then you're 'reusing' right? The stadium-world is used to cleaning up huge messes after every event.

I'm not sure about this, but I suspect the people that have to clean these up are employees of the stadium, paid by the hour. They'll have to sweep the floor anyway, so sweeping airplanes isn't that much of a big deal. This actually gives them more work, hence more money. I doubt you'll hear them complaining if this is correct. Better than sweeping up beer bottles after a football game.

When I read the title 'being proactive' I thought this string would be about looking up and practicing actual airplane designs that are good, that win contests. Not just the boring barely-works dart planes most of you are throwing.

Yes, I mentor in paper airplane design too.

And if the people in charge want it to stop, and say so, I'll go along, but that wouldn't be my preference.

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by hrench

...But certainly they're not more dangerous than great big beach balls that routinely hit people in the head.
...
Also, yes, OK, it's a big mess. Especially if people bring paper just for this, but in my experience it's been mostly paper from scouting reports, safety 'posters' and re-used paper and I'm mostly unfolding someone else's airplanes and making better ones. First isn't noted for being terribly green. And if you're re-folding planes, then you're 'reusing' right? The stadium-world is used to cleaning up huge messes after every event.
...
I'm not sure about this, but I suspect the people that have to clean these up are employees of the stadium, paid by the hour. They'll have to sweep the floor anyway, so sweeping airplanes isn't that much of a big deal. This actually gives them more work, hence more money. I doubt you'll hear them complaining if this is correct. Better than sweeping up beer bottles after a football game.

People in the stands generally aren't wearing safety glasses. I've had quite a few come close to nailing me in the eye. You are right that beach balls are generally safe though.

Maybe it's been a while since the last explicit message (Though last years GAME NAME is kinda a big hint), but FIRST is trying to be green. They used to have EWatt Light Saver light bulbs to help the environment.

"I'm giving custodians a job and extra hours to work." has got to be one of the dumbest reasons people keep presenting for keeping this. I'd rather give them an extra light night where all of the students clean up after themselves and don't litter all over the dome floor. Be sure to ask your boss for extra hours on the weekends because it means more money.

[hrench]

Originally Posted by CalTran

I'd rather give them an extra light night where all of the students clean up after themselves and don't litter all over the dome floor.

What about the confetti? should we stop that too? That's actually provided by the organizers.

No, because it's fun too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=340rbguRulo

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by hrench

What about the confetti? should we stop that too? That's actually provided by the organizers.

No, because it's fun too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=340rbguRulo

Celebratory confetti is different. It's something the winning Alliance has earned and I imagine the venue knows about well in advance with all of the setup for the system.

[Francis-134]

Originally Posted by hrench

Actually, I'm a mentor that doesn't think this is that big of deal...

I tend to agree that if FIRST thinks it's OK, then it's kinda cool. No lie, I've always wanted to show up with some sort of paper contraption that puts the paper rings to shame.

The issue is that it appears FIRST does not want it, and it's pretty annoying to a lot of people when you get hit with one. We really just need the event to tell people to cut it out if that is what the Championship really wants.

[gp2013]

Originally Posted by hrench

Actually, I'm a mentor that doesn't think this is that big of deal.

Yes, airplanes shouldn't be thrown when important things are happening and they shouldn't have anything but paper in them. But certainly they're not more dangerous than great big beach balls that routinely hit people in the head.

Paper airplanes are
1. an engineering competition
2. a social activity
3. a science demonstration.

I could go on. They're fun.

Yes, we could be staring into our cell phones instead. I prefer this.

Also, yes, OK, it's a big mess. Especially if people bring paper just for this, but in my experience it's been mostly paper from scouting reports, safety 'posters' and re-used paper and I'm mostly unfolding someone else's airplanes and making better ones. First isn't noted for being terribly green. And if you're re-folding planes, then you're 'reusing' right? The stadium-world is used to cleaning up huge messes after every event.

I'm not sure about this, but I suspect the people that have to clean these up are employees of the stadium, paid by the hour. They'll have to sweep the floor anyway, so sweeping airplanes isn't that much of a big deal. This actually gives them more work, hence more money. I doubt you'll hear them complaining if this is correct. Better than sweeping up beer bottles after a football game.

When I read the title 'being proactive' I thought this string would be about looking up and practicing actual airplane designs that are good, that win contests. Not just the boring barely-works dart planes most of you are throwing.

Yes, I mentor in paper airplane design too.

And if the people in charge want it to stop, and say so, I'll go along, but that wouldn't be my preference.

I agree. I find the engineering challenge of the airplanes a lot of fun. Rarely do students have an opportunity to launch their creation from such a lofty site and some of our students will actually work on designs ahead of Championships. As far as dumping paper or throwing balls of paper - that is simply mindless vandalism. Akin to kicking over garbage cans.

Personally, I think the paper airplanes have a lot more going for them than the confetti dumped at the end of the competition. I know from experience it is a lot easier to clean up paper airplanes than small bits of 'confetti'. The confetti lasts all of 5 minutes, gets everywhere, sticks to everything.

As the quoted post mentions, making and throwing the airplanes is an exercise in social engagement. Thousands of students are taking part in a shared engineering challenge. Each has the opportunity to immediately evaluate the success of the others by simple observation and seeing a successful design, speculate on its construction and try it for themselves. Science Centres pay buckets for that kind of social interpretive experience.

I haven't really heard anyone official from FIRST saying to stop testing airplanes. On the contrary, I feel the responses of speakers (Dean) to incoming flyers actually encourages the students. If the organizers were to crack down on anything, I would prefer it to be dumping paper or throwing balls of paper. Continue to encourage experimentation, innovation and creativity in social experiences and I think you would discourage the other stuff.

I do agree with most people that throwing planes onto the field while the competition is happening is pretty poor judgement though.

[pilleya]

I think the main issue here, is that there is a lot of waiting around. It is probably too late to organise something like this, but why not give the option to a few teams who didn’t make it to Einstein, but were in the Eliminations to volunteer their robots for some separate competitions before Einstein Occurs, or during long breaks.

Here are some examples of things that happened at events in previous years:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efvCDYTj0Wk

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ight=drag+race (this happened at champs in 2008)

There are a lot of robots with treads and hi-traction pneumatic wheels this year. I think a 3 vs 3 tug of war; with 3 tracked robots vs 3 wheeled robots would be awesome.

Could these be conducted on the concrete arena floor or on carpet, near the Mass and Energy fields?

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by gp2013

I haven't really heard anyone official from FIRST saying to stop testing airplanes.

Does Frank count as official?

[Chris Hibner]

Originally Posted by hrench

I could go on. They're fun.

Yes, we could be staring into our cell phones instead. I prefer this.

They're not so fun when someone gets injured.

I hate to be the old "it's all fun and games until someone loses and eye", but...

I have been hit within a half inch of my eye on three separate occasions by a paper plane at the championship. And when they come from 100 feet overhead, they can hit with a fair amount of force. It was significant enough that I was seriously thankful that it missed my eye. I don't know about you, but I value my eyesight. This is why I'm so against it.

I swear I'm not that old, even though it seems like it in this thread. I'm just sick and tired of getting hit near my eyes.

[gp2013]

Originally Posted by CalTran

Does Frank count as official?

Not exactly a loud and clear position. If FIRST wants to stop students (and mentors) from throwing airplanes during finals, then it would make sense to be absolutely clear about it. This reads more as an opinion than an official statement. Was anything said the next year before things began? I seem to recall being encouraged during the official speeches to make and throw them.

To be honest, I agree with Frank about one thing. It's a minor issue in the scheme of things.