FIRST LGBT+ (A blog by and about LGBT+ people in FIRST)

[Mr_Moko]

Originally Posted by MooreteP

Thank you Mr_Moko

Personally I don't believe that I should receive any thanking for the project. For me it's simply a matter of giving back to a community that I love and has given a lot to me.

I appreciate being thanked, though in my opinion the support that we'll be working on giving people is what I see as thanks enough. Helping one person feel more welcomed will make me beyond elated.

I hope that makes sense and didn't sound too rambly

[Van.Augur]

As a believer that an individual of the LGB+ community deserves all the rights of any other individual, I don't see an issue with the blog. I hope it's expected that all FIRST teams are accepting of people of any orientation/gender/identity/etc. On my team, things of that nature have never really been an issue for anybody. On our team, everybody generally judges our members by their character and how they positively contribute to the team. So long as you contribute positively to the team and are a decent person (and keep your grades up), we love you! It doesn't really matter to the team whether you're gay, straight, bisexual, transgender, etc. I think judgement on any other basis would be inappropriate, ungracious, and unprofessional.

While I don't think that the LGB issue is any more or less important to FIRST than it would be to any other organization, that doesn't mean it's not worth talking about as needed. I couldn't see a issue with starting a blog about it. That being said, the issue is inherently socio-political (it is, by definition, a political issue). Some people would rather not get tangled up in such politics, so I can also understand people's desires to not delve any deeper than absolutely necessary.

I hope that the accepting atmosphere that I have experienced through the dozens of teams I have encountered during my time in FIRST continues to give any and all dedicated students an opportunity to find fulfillment.

[Jaci]

I'm glad this project is starting up, and hopefully it becomes a useful resource to both students and mentors alike. As a trans person, I feel this is very important to help teams become more accepting, understanding and progressive. I put my full support behind this effort (and many others such as FIRST Ladies), and hope to see it become a resource utilised by many teams, students and volunteers.

[nrgy_blast]

Originally Posted by Madison

Four men are meant to share a hotel room. One of them is black. Another is an unrepentant racist.

Who do you move?

Pretty straight forward. I don't move anyone. I remove the racist from the team.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by nrgy_blast

Pretty straight forward. I don't move anyone. I remove the racist from the team.

... so following that same logic, do you move the trans person out of the room or do you remove the transphobe from the team? What's the difference in this scenario? They are both issues of comfort level that are fundamentally rooted in prejudice.

[anonymous123]

Originally Posted by Madison

Four men are meant to share a hotel room. One of them is black. Another is an unrepentant racist.

Who do you move?

I'm not sure that I understand how this question is pertinent to the conversation, Madison. The skin color you are born with is not a choice, and the law does not prevent students of different skin colors from sharing a hotel room. The law does prevent students of different sexes from sharing a hotel room.

I do not know how you categorize students who choose to identify with the opposite sex of the body they were born with. Maybe you should go by what their government-issued ID says, or their birth certificate, or what the records kept by the school district indicate. The last thing you want is a student with a male body, but who identifies as a female, sharing a room with female students. This is a recipe for disaster, and, as a parent I would not be comfortable putting my daughter in this situation.

My bottom line is that I don't really care what a student's sexual orientation/identity, race, gender, or ethnicity is, as long as they contribute to the team in a meaningful way. Any person (student or mentor) who does not contribute, or worse, hinders other students from contributing (doesn't matter to me if they are a distraction, a bully, or making another student feel uncomfortable/unaccepted) should be dealt with swiftly and appropriately. We should all be treated equally, and with respect.

The constitution protects our rights to think whatever we please, and to express those thoughts and opinions, regardless of which side of the debate our views lie. It does not protect our actions, especially when those actions infringe on another citizen's rights. It is your protected right to blog about LBGT+ people in FIRST. It is my protected right to share my thoughts and opinions about your blog in a respectful manner. It is unfortunate that this thread has deteriorated into a flurry of arguments, personal attacks, and nonacceptance of other's views. Chief Delphi is not an appropriate place for this type of behavior (regardless if you are a student or an adult mentor).

That being said, I wish you the best of luck with your blog, Mr_Moko.

I choose to keep my post anonymous on this thread because, like many of the LGBT+ people here, I am fearful of the backlash and actions that might be taken against me by those who do not agree with me, if they were to know my true identity. It sends a bad message about acceptance when there are people who are obviously not accepting (or at least tolerant) of those of us with opposing views on this subject.

[Madison]

Originally Posted by anonymous123

I'm not sure that I understand how this question is pertinent to the conversation, Madison. The skin color you are born with is not a choice, and the law does not prevent students of different skin colors from sharing a hotel room. The law does prevent students of different sexes from sharing a hotel room.

I do not know how you categorize students who choose to identify with the opposite sex of the body they were born with. Maybe you should go by what their government-issued ID says, or their birth certificate, or what the records kept by the school district indicate. The last thing you want is a student with a male body, but who identifies as a female, sharing a room with female students. This is a recipe for disaster, and, as a parent I would not be comfortable putting my daughter in this situation.

The scenario I laid out purposefully draws a comparison between a person's skin color and their sexuality or gender identity. I believe, unequivocally, that those characteristics are as immutable as one's skin color. Further, I believe that a trans person should be treated as one would anyone else who shares the same gender identity (and, more generally, that treating people differently based on gender is an absurd concept on its face).

I don't agree with the supposition that the scenario you describe above is a recipe for disaster. You are valuing the discomfort you feel about placing your daughter in that situation above the discomfort the trans person feels when they are treated as something different than they are. I don't think that's fair and that was the point I was trying to make with my initial comparison. Too often, we consider the experiences of LGBTQ people to be something other than normal and we inconvenience them, to put it mildly, in service of allaying our own misgivings.

[Basel A]

Originally Posted by anonymous123

I'm not sure that I understand how this question is pertinent to the conversation, Madison. The skin color you are born with is not a choice, and the law does not prevent students of different skin colors from sharing a hotel room. The law does prevent students of different sexes from sharing a hotel room.

It sounds like you're saying trans students are choosing to change their gender. I disagree with this premise, and it's really the basis of your whole argument. To me, a student who is transfemale is simply female. If the law dictates otherwise, I have no choice but to abide by that. I also think a lot of parents would have more modern attitudes than you're demonstrating (of course, either way, their and their children's comfort levels are important, but not more important than the comfort of the trans student).

[Michael Corsetto]

I have a few questions:

• Any mentors have advice on best practices to develop environment conducive towards inclusion of minorities (and specifically LGBT+ students)?
• Any mentors familiar with common public school policies surrounding these topics?
• Any mentors have "do's" and "do not's" surrounding these topics they would be willing to share?
• I've seen theoretical hotel assignment predicaments brought up in this thread. Any mentors willing to share their methods for approaching these scenarios? (actual experience is preferred here!)
• If hotel assignments are a "red herring" in these conversations, are there other "real" challenges towards inclusiveness/equity that mentors face when serving LGBT+ students?

I'm really hoping to be better educated and aware so I can serve my student base as competently as possible.

From what I understand, this new blog will primarily be a blog by students. And that is awesome! I'm just hoping for some more resources/experiences from mentor perspectives, so that the rest of us "oldies" can grow as well

-Mike

[Liam Fay]

Originally Posted by anonymous123

I do not know how you categorize students who choose to identify with the opposite sex of the body they were born with. Maybe you should go by what their government-issued ID says, or their birth certificate, or what the records kept by the school district indicate. The last thing you want is a student with a male body, but who identifies as a female, sharing a room with female students. This is a recipe for disaster, and, as a parent I would not be comfortable putting my daughter in this situation.

I do not understand how this is a recipe for disaster. In putting a female student who was born male in a room with two cisgendered females, you are just having three women sharing a room.

Contrary to what some might think, trans folk are NOT perverts claiming to be the opposite sex just to... whatever. By not allowing a MtF woman to be like the rest of the girls is telling her that she is different, she is unwanted, that she cannot be the only thing she is comfortable being.

[jweston]

Originally Posted by anonymous123

I'm not sure that I understand how this question is pertinent to the conversation, Madison. The skin color you are born with is not a choice, and the law does not prevent students of different skin colors from sharing a hotel room. The law does prevent students of different sexes from sharing a hotel room.

I do not know how you categorize students who choose to identify with the opposite sex of the body they were born with. Maybe you should go by what their government-issued ID says, or their birth certificate, or what the records kept by the school district indicate. The last thing you want is a student with a male body, but who identifies as a female, sharing a room with female students. This is a recipe for disaster, and, as a parent I would not be comfortable putting my daughter in this situation.

This stems from one of the great misunderstandings of the LGBTQI community: this isn't about what you see on the outside but what people feel on the inside. You can't see feelings. The person has to tell you and you have to listen to understand.

anonymous123, I appreciate your honesty and sincerity about your feelings. It is only very, very, _very_ recently that mainstream society has begun to reconsider the common, but ugly and false, view of transgender people as defective and/or deceptive. We're all at the mercy of our socialization.

But you would also do well to take transgender people at their word that they are effectively people who are trapped in a biological body that does not match how they feel about their gender. Saying that putting a transfemale in with a room of cis females is the same as putting a male in a room of cis females is plain untrue.

And all of this assumes that the people in question are heterosexual and would feel that their privacy would be violated by having to room with a member of the opposite sex. As I've said before, you have to take into account the general energy of the room as determined by the individuals.

[FlamingSpork]

Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto

I have a few questions:

• I've seen theoretical hotel assignment predicaments brought up in this thread. Any mentors willing to share their methods for approaching these scenarios? (actual experience is preferred here!)

On my team, our lead programmer is biologically male but identifies as (and is considered by her friends to be) female. Under our school's policies, she is considered male and was placed in a room with male students.

I am a student on the team, so I have no knowledge of the full policy, only how it was implemented in this instance.

This took place in conservative Western New York, where attitudes toward LGBTQ+ people stray behind those in other parts of the nation (but are still ahead of some others).

[Jaci]

Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto

[*]I've seen theoretical hotel assignment predicaments brought up in this thread. Any mentors willing to share their methods for approaching these scenarios? (actual experience is preferred here!)

I'm a student mentor this year, and I shared some of my experience with room assignment in this thread. Sitting down with the students and asking them who they want to room with and checking if it's within the laws that govern you is the best option.

[FrankJ]

From Jaci's referenced thread

Originally Posted by Jaci

The Australian department of education's laws defining room arrangements on school trips has a good way of dealing with situations like mine, and I am fairly certain the same system is employed in the US, although you will have to do some research of your own to confirm that. Basically, you can stay with pretty much anyone in your rough age group (i.e. both under 18, or one under 18 and one above 18 if you've known each other closely for more than 2 years) as long as the following conditions are met:

1) All people(s) staying together agree to it
2) All people(s) staying together's parents agree to it
3) Parents agree on the rules that they set out (i.e. no exposure, sleep in different beds, whatever they deem necessary)
4) Students agree to follow these rules and know that if any of them are broken, what the consequences are.
5) None of it is illegal

Unfortunately the rules in the US generally aren't that logical. You have 50 states, all with variations, the federal government is starting to get involved. So you have administrations fall back to zero tolerance like policies.

[Jaci]

Originally Posted by FrankJ

From Jaci's referenced thread

Unfortunately the rules in the US generally aren't that logical. You have 50 states, all with variations, the federal government is starting to get involved. So you have administrations fall back to zero tolerance like policies.

This is why I put the whole "although you will have to do some research of your own" segment. If the law forbids it, that's one thing, but if a person with duty of care says no because "it's just easier that way", that's something else entirely.