2016 IRI Rule Change Suggestions

[pandamonium]

Add a spy ball that can be placed in the courtyard in auto mode.
add an additional ranking point in quals matches that exceed 150-175 points. (there needs to be an intensive to keep playing. In the event of a blow out you don't want to see an alliance all on the tower with 20 seconds left to play.)

Stronghold is a good game so to make it better you just need more stronghold
Increasing match length for eliminations 30 seconds
Breaches need all 5 defenses
Increase tower strength

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by Matthew1998

Return any ball that flies out of the field to the SPY. They can do what we they want with the ball, except score it.

Interesting idea that would add a fun element to an otherwise uninteresting position. I would allow them to score it, but not peg another robot.

[Eric Scheuing]

Originally Posted by JesseK

Interesting idea that would add a fun element to an otherwise uninteresting position. I would allow them to score it, but not peg another robot.

Allow them to only score, but only low goals.

Any ball returned to the field by the human player may only contact robots on that human player's alliance before making contact with another robot.

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by Eric Scheuing

Allow them to only score, but only low goals.

Any ball returned to the field by the human player may only contact robots on that human player's alliance before making contact with another robot.

Sequence of events for a ball is tough on the refs, tbh. Scoring is automated, so it's easy.

[pmangels17]

I'd like to see what happens when all the herding/trapping/driving-on-top-of/shooting-outside-the-opposing-courtyard rules were lifted. It seems like it could make the refs jobs a lot easier, there would be a lot more high-flying game pieces, and teams could get more creative with strategy (both defensively and offensively). This might have to correlate with more tower strength, but that isn't really a problem.

Defensive robots wouldn't only be robots that can drive well, but now defensive robots that can remove game pieces from their courtyard would be valued, as would robots that can feed their attacking shooters in the opposing courtyard.

Subsequently, when teams don't have to cycle every time they needed a gamepiece to score (because they could be fed them by partners shooting them into the courtyard), we would probably see less defense crossings in a match, and maybe force teams to make a strategic decision to either feed boulders and score more, or cycle and get more crossings, ideally making it more work to breach the Outer Works without heavily modifying the breaching rules.

[Ryan_Todd]

Picking on Billfred here, just because he has some of the best ideas I've read so far...

Originally Posted by Billfred

-Playoffs tower strength is set to the average number of boulders scored across all alliances in the IRI qualification rounds, minimum 10. I don't think any of us can predict how loony the play will be there, so let's just admit we don't know.

Yes yes yes. Playoff tower reinforcement is not only thematically appropriate, but also makes a lot of sense for adapting to the level of play we expect to see at IRI!
(Follow-up question: does the FMS already allow this, and/or can we trick it somehow?)
.

Originally Posted by Billfred

-No penalty for crossing the midline during autonomous, if the bumpers don't cross the far black line. (This should facilitate boulder-grabbing strategies without removing the overall protection intended.)

I like the idea of giving teams a bit more fudge room around the central boulders during auton, but the exact wording of the revised G13 determines whether or not this strategy accomplishes that without starting an RC war like last year. Perhaps the positions of some/all of the central boulders might be modified instead, so that a certain number of them are unambiguously allocated to each alliance?
.

Originally Posted by Billfred

-Teams can get credit for more than one crossing in autonomous.

I would definitely support this if we find a way to give each defense 3 health instead of 2, or if we can limit the awarding of breaches to after all 5 defenses have been damaged, or we find some other way to jack up the difficulty of breaching the defenses. Otherwise, I'm not so sure that we want to make an easy thing even easier.
.

Originally Posted by Billfred

-Leave the drawbridge and sallyport alone. It's IRI, it's supposed to be hard. Bring a pole if you're that worried.
-Remove or greatly increase the height limit on poles, subject to some safety vetting (say, a get-through-the-doorway test and a pelted-with-boulders test). It's IRI, it's supposed to have something ridiculous on the field (and this might beat Suzy-Q).

Certainly! There are plenty of ways to solve the visibility problem, and teams playing at the level of IRI should already have a good solution for this. It was an intended part of the game challenge, and I'd say it still should be!

[Hitchhiker 42]

Originally Posted by chandrew

Add extra points for multi climbs/a triple climb bonus. Maybe make the rough terrain blocks a bit taller so that there's a reason to select it. Possibly add weight/take off the constant force springs on the portcullis?

Without the springs, the portcullus becomes incredibly hard to lift. Like I can barely lift it hard. I know because we tried going through one on the practice field at NEDCMP and snapped a part.

[Karibou]

Originally Posted by Hitchhiker 42

Without the springs, the portcullus becomes incredibly hard to lift. Like I can barely lift it hard. I know because we tried going through one on the practice field at NEDCMP and snapped a part.

No surprises there, that steel frame is heavy. You could remove the springs and change the frame to aluminum, but removing the springs would completely change the dynamic of the defense.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by Ryan_Todd

I like the idea of giving teams a bit more fudge room around the central boulders during auton, but the exact wording of the revised G13 determines whether or not this strategy accomplishes that without starting an RC war like last year. Perhaps the positions of some/all of the central boulders might be modified instead, so that a certain number of them are unambiguously allocated to each alliance?

I personally think the IRI refs can get away with a "we know when you're going for a boulder" policy where FIRST can't necessarily, just because it's IRI and it's only one event.

Unless many more restrictions are removed, nobody is getting more than two balls per robot. You could protect the three nearest to each low bar not unlike IRI did with recycling containers last year, but I think that affects strategy too much. (If they can auto something besides low bar, you'd put it in position 4/5 and bet on them not having an autonomous for that.)

[IKE]

I really like this game, and don't think it needs any real changes.

A couple possible improvements:

1. Have an extra ref monitoring the back-field and corral to ensure that teams get boulders back in ply in time or are penalized.

2. Find a better securing clip/method for ensure defenses do not pop out at inopportune times.

3. Discuss whether or not it makes sense to have "standard defenses" and thus eliminate the swapping of the defenses each match. I am not sure they are really adding much depth to the game at this point. You could do a vote for which ones team want out on the field, and them something else to determine the order/placement, and leave them put. If agreed to, then 2 would be much easier to resolve.

[Clinton Bolinger]

- Allow launching balls from your court yard, but not from the neutral zone.
- Remove Category A & C Defenses. Putting the following defenses out for every match:
-- Low Bar
-- Rockwall
-- Rough Terrain
-- Moat
-- Ramparts
- Bolt the defenses down instead of using the "pins"
- Breach is 5/5 Defenses

Most of my reasons for removing the defense selection is to increase field reset times which will allow for more matches. At IRI the defenses will be breached over 90% of the time (MSC has a breach of 96%). Also, the strategic advantage of selecting your defenses will be much less.

Stronghold is a very strategic game but most people are delusional when thinking the large portion of the strategy comes from picking the defenses.

-Clinton

[Richard Wallace]

I generally like Stronghold the way it is; however --

1) please put the drawbridge in the parking lot and leave it there. Make Sally's door transparent.

2) tower strength should be at least 10. Let's see how that works out at CMP before raising it further.

3) second Issac's call for better attention to G34 by the referees. Ball hoarding has been a thing in some matches,

4) figure out when to Red Card for tipping, and when clean contact = play on. Put Andy Baker in charge of that.

[Hitchhiker 42]

Originally Posted by Clinton Bolinger

- Allow launching balls from your court yard, but not from the neutral zone.
- Remove Category A & C Defenses. Putting the following defenses out for every match:
-- Low Bar
-- Rockwall
-- Rough Terrain
-- Moat
-- Ramparts
- Bolt the defenses down instead of using the "pins"
- Breach is 5/5 Defenses

Most of my reasons for removing the defense selection is to increase field reset times which will allow for more matches. At IRI the defenses will be breached over 90% of the time (MSC has a breach of 96%). Also, the strategic advantage of selecting your defenses will be much less.

Stronghold is a very strategic game but most people are delusional when thinking the large portion of the strategy comes from picking the defenses.

-Clinton

I disagree with completely taking out category A. Although for IRI it won't provide much of an additional challenge, making the breach even easier is the wrong direction to go. If we're going for constant defenses, stick the Cheval in, and be done with it. Don't completely use the easiest defenses.

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by Ben Martin

I would make the sally port and drawbridge transparent.

Some language to eliminate the transferring-balls-without-completely-crossing-a-defense penalties while still preventing the existence of 'defense-straddling bots' would be nice.

Some language to not penalize robots that inadvertently push a second boulder over a defense when crossing when the second boulder previously started in a defense would be nice.

Add a ref in each human player station watching ball counts

+1, especially to the transparent doors. Strip away thematic elements for the sake of improved referee visibility and reduced chance of uncredited crossings.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman

+1, especially to the transparent doors. Strip away thematic elements for the sake of improved referee visibility and reduced chance of uncredited crossings.

The referee angle is one I might indulge. Mostly-clear Sallyport, OEM Drawbridge? (If you pick the latter even now, you are very clearly making a statement.)