The Age Old Question

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Theseusgoats

The thing is that 71 definetly is one of the tip, if not the top team in FRC over history, but in reality, over the past 5ish years, they have been pretty poor for their championship winning standards. I mean, they failed to qualify for champs this year.

Yeah, you're wrong.

Being the first team to win multiple world championships then winning 4 (including back to back) 4 years before anyone would win a second one? Being one tube away from a 5th (again before anyone else had won a second one)? 12 years after their last world championship they are STILL held up as one of the most dominant teams in FRC history.

Yeah, you're just really wrong. Normally I'm ok with whatever on these sort of discussions but any "best teams" list that doesn't include 71 is just plain missing data.

[Lij2015]

Ya gotta have 71 at that number 1 slot, look at this stuff man: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAmAnkYDUQM

I think a team that could very well get added to the "agreed upon" section of this list in another few years is 1678 or 987. 1678 has been on Einstein all of the last three years, two of those years as a captain of the #1 seed and the other as the 1st pick and 987 is very consistent and pretty near 2056 as far as consistency goes with just not being able to have that win streak that 2056 had.

[Mike Schreiber]

71 - Best strategies in pre-3v3 FIRST. Most world wins. Only argument for them not being in the top 5 is their lack of HoF status.

67 - No bias here. This was established well before I had anything to do with the team. 3 world wins, 4 MSCs, HoF. At least Division Finalist every year since '07. Also sitting at #2 in blue banners.

111 - seems to be missing from a lot of people's list. 3 world championships in 03, 09, and 11 and a Hall of Fame win in 2006. Not as dominant in blue banners as the rest but there's no doubt they are a top team.

254 - Competitive every year. Hall of Fame. 2 Champs. A blue banner every year since they started. Most blue banners total.

1114 - #3 in blue banners - Einstein in '08,'10,'12,'14,'15. Win in '08. Hall of Fame in 2012

[RoboAlum]

Originally Posted by Theseusgoats

The thing is that 71 definetly is one of the tip, if not the top team in FRC over history, but in reality, over the past 5ish years, they have been pretty poor for their championship winning standards. I mean, they failed to qualify for champs this year.

past 5 years as a student who was on 71 from that time frame 2011: curie finalists only cause the pot on our swerve drive broke. 2012: yes bad year due to design flaws 2013: the top climber in our division at worlds and the most consistent 2014: wasnt there but 2015: finalist at the indiana district event 2016: great def and low goal and again consistent climber. Just cause they now focus on usually one aspect of the game instead of trying to be a powerhouse doesnt make them a bad team

[M217]

Alrighty, let's see what we got here. Disclaimer: My #1 is indisputable and constant, but the order of the rest can be changed, sicne I was largely splitting hairs in trying to judge.

1. 71 Team Hammond. Utterly, undeniably dominant in the early era of FIRST. They set a legacy in this program, and at the moment the rest of us are all just trying to catch up.
2. 1114 I'd call the Simbots the most consistent of the modern powerhouses. I can't think of a single year off the top of my head where their robot wasn't 100% Einstein worthy, not to mention their CMP Chairman's.
3. 254 Amazing bots, amazing people, and an amazing record. #1 in blue banners, not to mention several trips to the Einstein finals and HoF. The Best of the West, and arguably the Best of the Best.
4. 118/2056 Hard to say here. It's tough to think of two teams that are more different in strategy, and yet both of them have been unbelievably successful in their own ways. 2056 inspires me more with their resume (*coughstreakcough*) but 118 inspires me the most with their designs -- the grappling hook this year, the intake in 2012, the whole darn robot in 2013, etc... I think both these teams are equally worthy of the number 4 slot here.
5. 67/469 Both amazing teams with a very impressive number of Einstein appearances; either one is easily justifiable for including on a top 5 list.

[tindleroot]

The hard thing to judge about this question is the fact that some teams have been around much, MUCH longer than others. For example, 111 has been around since the beginning (except a year off), which means they have had a longer time to prove themselves as one of the elites. Also, the distinction between teams with many championships appearances/wins and teams with many regional wins is highly subjective. As for my own ranking, I will choose teams based on "influence" (how powerful the team was in their good years and how many years they were really good), which is extremely subjective but it is my own personal ranking.

1. 71 - 4 world championships has still been uncontested after over a decade of them NOT winning champs. Plus, great runs in 2007, 2009, 2011 after their main winning era.

2. 67 - Surprised at how "underrepresented" 67 is in this thread. ONLY national winners and Chairman's simultaneously. 3 Champs wins, including two consecutive. Third most blue banners. Has made it to division finals almost every year for over a decade. This team has been strong from their start in '97 all the way up until now, with few, if any, poor years in that 20 year stretch.

3. 254 - Best team of the modern era. Many Einstein appearances, 2 championships, most blue banners, HOF, long regional win streak. Again, good every year (have won at least 1 regional every season since they started, usually 2)

4. 1114 - Builds consistently strong robots, and again has several Einstein appearances. Relatively young team. Has been the #1 Captain or #1 Pick in their division every year since 2008 (except 2012, when they upset the #1). Second most blue banners. This team creates robots that most teams can only dream of creating.

5. 2056/111/118 - Can't decide between these three. Regional win streak vs. Many dominant world champs vs. constantly competitive robots.

Honorable mentions: 47, 469, 987, 1678

[Kevin Leonard]

Originally Posted by RoboAlum

past 5 years as a student who was on 71 from that time frame 2011: curie finalists only cause the pot on our swerve drive broke. 2012: yes bad year due to design flaws 2013: the top climber in our division at worlds and the most consistent 2014: wasnt there but 2015: finalist at the indiana district event 2016: great def and low goal and again consistent climber. Just cause they now focus on usually one aspect of the game instead of trying to be a powerhouse doesnt make them a bad team

I don't think anyone is saying 71 is bad now, just that 71 is no longer consistently achieving that top echelon of results anymore. (Although there was a better climber in Archimedes 2013- 3467)

If I had to rate teams in all time results:

1) 67- 67 won 3 World Championships, two of which were back-to-back in the modern era. Even now, they consistently make division finals at least. The thing that puts them above 71 is their Hall of Fame status, IMO.

2) 71- 4 World Championships, including two back to back.

3) 111- 3 World Championships and Hall of Fame status

4) 254- 2 World Championships, Hall of Fame, and consistently some of the best machines in the world.

5) 2056- No other team has a history of exclusively success in the same way 2056 does. They may not have won a championship yet, but just you wait- OP's time is coming.

[araniaraniratul]

Originally Posted by EricH

Top 5 teams in all of FRC history? That's a tough one...

71: Any top 5 list that leaves off the only 4-time World Champion is deserving of being the Rough Terrain--run over very often. They also have a World Finalist to their credit, and some RCAs as I recall. Oddly enough, only the Finalist came in the 3-team-alliance-on-the-field era.

254: HoF team, 1 World Championship, and on top of that has one of the most impressive streaks at a single event, with only one non-win at SVR dating back to 1999.

2056: They've won everything except the World Championship... except that one regional this year . There are those that say they should have filled that hole in 2012.

1114: Not as dominant as 2056, but still a force to be reckoned with.

And the last spot goes to... TIE!

67: Dominant every year, and still the only team to pull off a World Championship and a CCA at the same time.

47: I never got to see this team in person, but they are LEGENDARY. Pioneers of swerve drive, powerhouse when 71 was on the rise... and if it wasn't for this HoF team, this website wouldn't exist. (Their legacy lives on in FRC0051, which is a combination of FRC0047 and FRC0065.)


And a couple of Honorable Mentions...

191 is the only team with a guaranteed 3 berths at Championship. One for being a Legacy team, and one for each of their TWO Championship Chairmans' Awards. They are the only team with more than one CCA. (And yes, they only use one of those berths.)

111 is another legendary team, with that unforgettable tie-dye and a history of "just complex enough for the job" robots--OK, so maybe a 7-DOF arm is a little overkill for most teams...

254 has 2 world championships, not 1. Also considering how much flatter the recent FRC field has been, it's really hard to argue against THREE straight for 1678
Einstein visits, getting better every year. Like for them to get better, they'd probably have to win it all and IRI!

[Kevin Leonard]

Originally Posted by araniaraniratul

254 has 2 world championships, not 1. Also considering how much flatter the recent FRC field has been, it's really hard to argue against THREE straight
Einstein visits, getting better every year. Like for them to get better, they'd probably have to win it all and IRI!

When did 254 have three straight Einstein appearances?

[araniaraniratul]

Originally Posted by Kevin Leonard

When did 254 have three straight Einstein appearances?

Corrected, was thinking Citrus the whole time and never actually mentioned them! 254 does have two straight visits though (2010-2011), and really close to that third one!

[MooreteP]

To this list, I would like to add 177, the Bobcats. Their consecutive Einstein appearances (2006 - 2011) and Champions (2007, as the 8th seeded alliance from Newton, and 2010, with 67) were quite the run.

For geographical diversity, I also agree with 111, Wildstang, and of course 71 from the Midwest. 33, 469 (their "GodBot" in Breakaway was frightening) and 67 are also tough choices.

It's a difficult choice between 118 & 148 in Texas

Florida has also given us 233, The Pink Team, 180, S.P.A.M., and 179 "Children of the Swamp. All of these are perennial contenders.

1114 spawned 2056, so I will give them the tip 'o the hat.

My final list with Geographic diversity in mind, but in no particular order:
254, 67, 177, 233, 118, and 1114 I know, it's 6, not 5.

They will all be playing matches one week from today.

[Theseusgoats]

Hmm... This is why I try to refrain myself from commenting on Chief Delphi. I was just trying to make a comment that 71 just isn't what they used to be anymore. I didn't even say that they shouldn't make it on a top 5 list. In fact, they would probably be 2nd in mine. Truly, I respect them so much, especially as I come out of Indiana. I've played with and against them and have come to look up to them as the ideal team. With great spirit, students, mentors, and robots, they are my favorite team by far. I believe almost any Firster aspires to be like them, over anyone else. However, by commenting, I did not expect to get bombarded with negative replies and harsh PMs about how my views are stupid. I just don't understand this. You may think that I am just a regular student who doesn't know what he's talking about, but I've been a mentor/referee/volunteer who just took a break for a few years. I just wish I would be able to get some respect and at least a little bit of thoughtfulness in replying to me by at least taking the time to understand what I'm trying to say.

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by tindleroot

Honorable mentions: 47, 469, 987, 1678

Not yet...

[Michael Corsetto]

Originally Posted by Mike Schreiber

67 - [...] At least Division Finalist every year since '07

This statistic gets me. That is some incredible consistency in such a volatile sport. You're well on your way to making it a straight decade!

-Mike

[Mitchell1714]

*This links to Jim Zondag's amazing white paper, "2015 FRC Championship History", I will use it as a proof for my picks, but everyone that cares about FRC history should look it over. http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/3133?

1. 67- the HOT team is #1 by a clear margin. They have been the definition of greatness their entire existence. Their rookie year they won all stars at champs. They then won 9 regionals, 15 districts(TBA has some missing since they have 27 combined wins, 2nd most behind 254), 4 MSC's and 3 MSC finalists (thats 7/8 finals at MSC). These stats are more amazing considering crazy high the level of play in FIM and the pre-FIM regionals at Detroit, Midwest and Great Lakes regionals. HOT also has the best overall championship performance of any team ever, even better than team Hammond. Yes, you could make the argument for 71 if you value championships more heavily. (This next part is all in the whitepaper.) However, if you look at the theoretical district points a team makes playing in eliminations, then it shifts to HOT. HOT has had the point lead since 2008. At end of 2015 champs HOT had 577 compared to #2 Poofs at 516. The "time derated points" table is even more convincing. Since 2005 HOT never is worse than 5th best. They have the top score ever at 161 at the end of 2010. They also had the highest "time derated points" for 6 separate seasons. If you don't like statistics and like "the eye test" HOT may be top in that too. This is purely opinion but HOT did do many amazing things like: won 2010 champs in the last seconds by beating the basically unfair 1114-469 combo, made the bridge auto a thing first in 2012, fed themselves balls all of 2009, combined arguably the best FCS and a 50pt climber in 2013, the pitchfork 2005, caping 1241 at Palmetto 2004, ect... And don't forget they're in the Hall of Fame.

2. 71- 4 world champs, dominance at champs and regionals. The Beast.

3. 111- 3 world champs, Hall of Fame, dominance at champs and regionals. Their 2011 robot was the most inspiring one I have ever seen in real life.

4. 254- 2 world champs, 15 SVR's, 16 other regionals, Hall of Fame. Where does a team even hang 41 blue banners.

5. 1114- 1 world championship, Hall of Fame, 26 regionals, 39 blue banners. It's Simbotics.

Throughout the history of FIRST, if you took a poll of everyone participating in FRC asking, "Who is the single most iconic team?", almost every year it would be between 67, 71, 111, 254 or 1114.

Honorable mentions: 469, 148, 118, 233, 987, 33, 217, 25, 16, 27, 177, 365, 341, 51, 359, 2056