A question on a Foul

[ajay16]

Hello all,
During the Michigan State Championships' Octo-Finals #4 we (team 2834) received a penalty we were confused about. Our shooter had broken so we decided to do defenses when at time 1:39 (right hand side) we received a penalty. When we asked the head ref he did not know either. Could someone clarify the penalty so we can avoid it in the future. Thanks

link to match:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsML...RjSpDRHDui 0D

[Sperkowsky]

I rewatched and re-read some rules.
Looks like a bad call to me.
I assume it had to do with something to with some confusion around the secret passage rules but I am not sure.

[NShep98]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

I rewatched and re-read some rules.
Looks like a bad call to me.
I assume it had to do with something to with some confusion around the secret passage rules but I am not sure.

I have to agree here. If anything, the robot playing defense on you should have gotten a penalty for contact within the Secret Passage, but even that doesn't look quite right.

[rich2202]

I didn't see anything. You were no where close to the Secret Passage, so that could not have been it. You were also an Offensive Robot, so there could not be a contact in the Outer Works penalty by you. I did not see any contact by your robot inside the frame perimeter of the other robot. No possibility of a Pin. No Boulder to worry about.

I did see Red shoot a high goal just after your penalty. Does not seem like they got credit for the score.

[ajay16]

When I talked to the Head ref after the match he said something about someone having called a penalty on the red alliance. I originally thought I had misheard him (the score board said we were awarded no penalty points) but could it have been that incident and they just called it on the wrong alliance? If so what for?

Thanks for all the help.

[Richard Wallace]

Watching the courtyard ref's movements, I cannot tell what foul she might have seen at that moment. Her partner the outer works ref called a G38 on Blue (85) just after she waved. There had been a flag for the same thing by the head ref about a minute earlier in the match*, and those two Blue fouls are the only ones recorded.

I agree there's no foul in your team's actions just before the G38, or in 5980's.

---
*Ruffles pointed out there was a another Blue foul and a Blue tech foul recorded. I cannot see what they are for.

[RufflesRidge]

Originally Posted by Richard Wallace

There had been a flag for the same thing by the head ref about a minute earlier in the match, and those two Blue fouls are the only ones recorded.

There are 3 blue fouls and a tech recorded: http://frc-events.usfirst.org/2016/MICMP/playoffs/4

[ajay16]

Originally Posted by Richard Wallace

Watching the courtyard ref's movements, I cannot tell what foul she might have seen at that moment. Her partner the outer works ref called a G38 on Blue (85) just after she waved. There had been a flag for the same thing by the head ref about a minute earlier in the match, and those two Blue fouls are the only ones recorded.

I agree there's no foul in your team's actions just before the G38, or in 5980's.

Originally Posted by RufflesRidge

There are 3 blue fouls and a tech recorded: http://frc-events.usfirst.org/2016/MICMP/playoffs/4

I looked back on what both of you are each saying and I guess that makes sense, the penalty on us was not counted and the 3 other penalties were and the reason it was 20 points not 15 was one was a tech foul.

Thanks to everyone for your help.

[rich2202]

The Red score did go from 100 to 105 at the time of the foul, and I could not see Red scoring prior to the foul They did shoot a ball after the foul, and that never seems to have been scored (no decrease in Blue tower either).

So, I think the female ref did call a foul on Blue.

[EricH]

Rich, you should take a good look at the boulders by the low bar. That's the penalty that went in (and a valid call)--two-ball possession, on a different blue robot. The other foul, I agree, not sure what if anything the foul actually was, probably needed a no-call. (Unless one robot is getting into the other's frame perimeter.)

[rich2202]

Originally Posted by EricH

Rich, you should take a good look at the boulders by the low bar.)

I see it now. It was the far Ref on the Red Courtyard that called a foul on 85. 85 picked up 2 boulders by the low bar at 1:37, and the Ref finally called them on it at 1:45. Unfortunately the Head Ref blocks the view of the robot when the actual foul was called, and 85 is dropping one of the boulders.

The near Ref calling the foul on 2834 did not enter it on the Ref Pad, so no foul.