Lopsided Divisions

[Arhowk]

Originally Posted by Richard Wallace

My understanding is that HQ lists teams in the order their payment for CMP is received, then deals them out to divisions in that order. This method of assigning divisions is effectively random; however, random assignments do not prevent a stacked division. Folks who have been scouting CMP for a long time can point to earlier examples. 2016 Newton is an extreme one.

This method seems like it would stack divisions because theoretically the better teams are already anticipating a championship visit and are prepared to pay earlier

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Arhowk

This method seems like it would stack divisions because theoretically the better teams are already anticipating a championship visit and are prepared to pay earlier

Sorry if my description was unclear. By "deals them out" I meant that the first team to pay goes into division 1, the second team to pay goes into division 2, etc. Like dealing cards from a deck.

[Hitchhiker 42]

Originally Posted by Arhowk

This method seems like it would stack divisions because theoretically the better teams are already anticipating a championship visit and are prepared to pay earlier

If they are dividing them up, though, that would theoretically make for an even distribution of first early payers (best teams) all the way to latest payers.

[Doug Frisk]

Originally Posted by Arhowk

This method seems like it would stack divisions because theoretically the better teams are already anticipating a championship visit and are prepared to pay earlier

No, the teams are assigned across the divisions as payment/registration happens. Team 1 goes to Archimedes, team 2 goes to Borlaug, 3.... and finally 9 goes back to Archimedes.

That's done for the non-rookie teams, then the same process is followed for the rookie teams so they are evenly distributed. At least that was the process in the past.

[SenorZ]

Is this REALLY the conversation we're having right before champs is split in two?
Any proposed "fix" will be moot for the 2017 championship event(s).

[Abhishek R]

Originally Posted by SenorZ

Is this REALLY the conversation we're having right before champs is split in two?
Any proposed "fix" will be moot for the 2017 championship event(s).

Why? Just because there are two champs does not mean one division can't be more stacked than another.

[JosephC]

Originally Posted by SenorZ

Any proposed "fix" will be moot for the 2017 championship event(s).

False, considering any solution found can just be used individually at both events, the only difference would be 4 divisions instead of 8.

[SenorZ]

Originally Posted by JosephC

False, considering any solution found can just be used individually at both events, the only difference would be 4 divisions instead of 8.

...and in determining who goes to which championship? Or is that just geo-based?

I think Adam's "Thanks" was in advance of the free show of pointless arguing he was about to see.

[JosephC]

Originally Posted by SenorZ

...and in determining who goes to which championship? Or is that just geo-based?

I think Adam's "Thanks" was in advance of the free show of pointless arguing he was about to see.

Anything about who goes to what champ is pure speculation at this point, and really has nothing to do with a discussion about division "fairness" and its possible solutions.

99% of any discussion on CD is "pointless arguing", including your posts here, so I don't really get what you're aiming for?

_________________________________________________

IMO, the current method of assigning divisions works fine. Each team essentially get a random division (afaik, based on previous posts). If you ended up on Newton this year, that's just your luck of the draw. Is it "fair"? Pretty much. You had just as much as a chance as any other team attending worlds to make your division.

If FRC was to swap to a different system (like one based on the OP), how would they make it "fair"? OPR? Some type of District point esque system? There would always be an unhappy group, just as there is now, except they'd have an even larger excuse.

[Joe Johnson]

Originally Posted by JosephC

<SNIP>

99% of any discussion on CD is "pointless arguing", including your posts here, so I don't really get what you're aiming for?

<SNIP>

Kinda harsh. But sure, there is a lot of blathering on online but still, I think there is sometimes good that comes of it. Either a wider consensus that things are okay or perhaps enough peasants get excited enough to grab their pitchforks and storm the castle. It is not a completely useless exercise.

At least I don't think so.

Originally Posted by JosephC

<SNIP>
IMO, the current method of assigning divisions works fine. Each team essentially get a random division (afaik, based on previous posts). If you ended up on Newton this year, that's just your luck of the draw. Is it "fair"? Pretty much. You had just as much as a chance as any other team attending worlds to make your division.

If FRC was to swap to a different system (like one based on the OP), how would they make it "fair"? OPR? Some type of District point esque system? There would always be an unhappy group, just as there is now, except they'd have an even larger excuse.

<SNIP>

I am glad you're fine with things but I am unconvinced that there isn't a better system and that a better system wouldn't be worth the bother because people would still complain.

If FIRST aspires to be a robotic sport, then they should work to make it better for the same reason the NFL or the NCAA is continually tweaking the rule book and procedures to improve the experience for all.

Dr. Joe J.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Ok, let's do it by school size... or budget... or student count... or mentor count? Who wants to be in the mentor built division?

[Sperkowsky]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

Ok, let's do it by school size... or budget... or student count... or mentor count? Who wants to be in the mentor built division?

Sign my team up who doesn't want to play with all of the good teams!

[bkahl]

It's all random.

[nuggetsyl]

IMO what makes the NFL great is anyone can win becuase the league leveled the playing field. No one team can buy all the good players.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by nuggetsyl

IMO what makes the NFL great is anyone can win becuase the league leveled the playing field. No one team can buy all the good players.

So FIRST Championship needs to become Fantasy FIRST. Each division is given a leader in STEM and those Division Leaders then draft the teams they want to see play.