Being Proactive About Paper Airplanes on Einstein

[EricH]

If "letting kids be kids" results in someone losing an eye, are those kids going to take responsibility?

Or are the mentors who are allowing the kids to do so going to feel the heat?



Correct answer: Yes.


I don't know about you, but I'd rather not have to deal with all the paperwork. I plan to have a sudoku book on me before Einstein...whether or not I happen to work a puzzle or two remains to be seen. I've seen (at one time long ago) somebody watching Monty Python. While those aren't the greatest things to do, they sure beat paper airplanes for cleanup and non-disruption of speeches.

As far as it happening every year, I can vouch that that's NOT the case. Seems to have started only after FIRST moved the CMP to St. Louis. It leaves a lot of extra trash for somebody to clean up (and I would hope that the throwers do try to clean some up...)


By the way, you're right that we don't have a right to tell those on not on our teams what to do. But... Did you just tell a bunch of folks who aren't on your team what to do? And bear in mind one other thing: Some of those folks you just told that to (and some of the folks down on the floor that might be getting hit by the airplanes) happen to be in positions to hire folks like you--young FIRSTers just getting out of high school and/or college. Would you believe that acting immature and disrespectful can impact your chances of being hired? I think I would.

[Jonny_Jee]

The issue isn't isolated to just the dome, in past years I've seen paper airplanes falling from hotels rooms and ending up in the streets of St. Louis. This type of behavior, while sparse, is an extension of what goes on in the dome.

[TheModMaster8]

Originally Posted by EricH

If "letting kids be kids" results in someone losing an eye, are those kids going to take responsibility?

Or are the mentors who are allowing the kids to do so going to feel the heat?



Correct answer: Yes.


I don't know about you, but I'd rather not have to deal with all the paperwork. I plan to have a sudoku book on me before Einstein...whether or not I happen to work a puzzle or two remains to be seen. I've seen (at one time long ago) somebody watching Monty Python. While those aren't the greatest things to do, they sure beat paper airplanes for cleanup and non-disruption of speeches.

As far as it happening every year, I can vouch that that's NOT the case. Seems to have started only after FIRST moved the CMP to St. Louis. It leaves a lot of extra trash for somebody to clean up (and I would hope that the throwers do try to clean some up...)


By the way, you're right that we don't have a right to tell those on not on our teams what to do. But... Did you just tell a bunch of folks who aren't on your team what to do? And bear in mind one other thing: Some of those folks you just told that to (and some of the folks down on the floor that might be getting hit by the airplanes) happen to be in positions to hire folks like you--young FIRSTers just getting out of high school and/or college. Would you believe that acting immature and disrespectful can impact your chances of being hired? I think I would.

The thing about text is that you can't take the writers tone at which they mean it by, For example, if you read it in a snarky or mal-intent tone, then yes it would be disrespectful, however if you read it in a semi-serious and slap-happy way, the results are about as night is to day. (I also thought it was quite evident that you would be able to see the typical stereotypes here, young people thinking adults are boring parents telling other parents to "let kids be kids" and ext. However I can see that this was lost on many if not all of you. read it)

"telling students off only make it worse" was me informing you of the kind of mindset you will be going up against.

"so if you want to stop your team from doing it then just do that," Was me giving you advice on how to minimize it (if every mentor did this for there own team then no one would be throwing airplanes!)

"but you don't have a right to tell those of us who are not on your team to stop because you find it disrespectful or immature." Was me giving you a fact which can also be taken as telling you.

I do agree with you all on the disrespect on doing this during speeches and awards, however I do not see doing this during dull moments immature, as long as the (throwers of the planes) pick up as many planes as they made and thrown before leaving,

and other then this you and everyone else who has posted on here, and I will not see eye to eye on this matter, as this was the most memorable and inspiring thing i got to witness and partake in during my first year going to worlds. so forgive me for being defensive over something i see as important (for real... not being smart A or anything)

[gblake]

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8

...
"but you don't have a right to tell those of us who are not on your team to stop because you find it disrespectful or immature." Was me giving you a fact which can also be taken as telling you.
...

Sure he does. It takes a village.

No one is supposed to be throwing anything at other people (bystanders) in the dome. Where-o-where did you ever get the notion into your head that anything else was correct?

If you want to plant your flag of rebellion/independence, you should pick a more important subject - Preferably one in which civility, local regulations, and laws are on your side; or one in which a great injustice needs to be corrected - This subject is neither.

Blake

[TheModMaster8]

Originally Posted by gblake

Sure he does. It takes a village.

No one is supposed to be throwing anything at other people (bystanders) in the dome. Where-o-where did you ever get the notion into your head that anything else was correct?

If you want to plant your flag of rebellion/independence, you should pick a more important subject - Preferably one in which civility, local regulations, and laws are on your side; or one in which a great injustice needs to be corrected - This subject is neither.

Blake

Who ever said throwing them at people? as far as I'm aware, it is to get the airplane to go the furthest, it just turns out that a lot of people suck at making airplanes. By what authority were you given to say that your stance on a matter is correct? were do you get off calling me or anyone else that partakes in this action rebellious. I personally have not seen nor heard FIRST request/ prohibit people to stop. so technically the rules would are on my side, as you are trying to enforce a none existent rule onto others because you find the act distasteful,

If someone can't exercise enough self-restraint to not toss paper airplanes, just because they happen to find themselves in a large building, then I'm afraid that whatever they might have learned from FIRST is a house built on sand.

What a faulty notion. if someone throws a paper airplane then everything they have learned will fall apart? Last year a high ranking official from the United States Air Force complimented this activity and even when so far out to take the ones on the stage with him to remember FIRST by. I don't know about you but That man obviously saw something you all did not. I can't and wont force my opinions down your throat.( I'm also finished with this topic as the amount of criticism I've received from you all if much greater then what I feel I deserve for such a topic.)

[EricH]

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8

Who ever said throwing them at people? as far as I'm aware, it is to get the airplane to go the furthest, it just turns out that a lot of people suck at making airplanes. By what authority were you given to say that your stance on a matter is correct? were do you get off calling me or anyone else that partakes in this action rebellious. I personally have not seen nor heard FIRST request/ prohibit people to stop. so technically the rules would are on my side, as you are trying to enforce a none existent rule onto others because you find the act distasteful,

You'll pardon me for saying this, but when you throw from any level of the dome, there are people below you, am I not correct? I do realize that you're not throwing AT those people, but you are most certainly throwing TOWARDS those people, and the fact that they are below you makes your paper airplane much more dangerous. And the fact that you're throwing towards people and cannot aim once you've released your projectile means that you may as well be throwing at them.

Additionally, you might not have heard it, but Frank (Director of FRC) has posted on the FRC blog in the past to not do it, AND some of my team has told me that there was an announcement yesterday. Whether you pay attention to those announcements or not, it has been announced, at very high levels of FRC. The rules of FRC might not have been updated, but they are rather not on your side here.

I believe that uncivil behavior is, in fact, a card-grade penalty (after a talk with appropriate officials, that is). Should, of course, throwing paper airplanes be regarded as uncivil behavior (depending on timing, it's a minimum of disrespectful), and should, of course, the throwers be identified, then that's what they can expect.

[marshall]

Originally Posted by EricH

You'll pardon me for saying this, but when you throw from any level of the dome, there are people below you, am I not correct? I do realize that you're not throwing AT those people, but you are most certainly throwing TOWARDS those people, and the fact that they are below you makes your paper airplane much more dangerous. And the fact that you're throwing towards people and cannot aim once you've released your projectile means that you may as well be throwing at them.

Additionally, you might not have heard it, but Frank (Director of FRC) has posted on the FRC blog in the past to not do it, AND some of my team has told me that there was an announcement yesterday. Whether you pay attention to those announcements or not, it has been announced, at very high levels of FRC. The rules of FRC might not have been updated, but they are rather not on your side here.

I believe that uncivil behavior is, in fact, a card-grade penalty (after a talk with appropriate officials, that is). Should, of course, throwing paper airplanes be regarded as uncivil behavior (depending on timing, it's a minimum of disrespectful), and should, of course, the throwers be identified, then that's what they can expect.

Relevant blog from Frank:
http://www.firstinspires.org/robotic...-Pros-and-Cons

Originally Posted by FRC's Frank

Paper airplanes – I was on the fence about listing this one, because it could be considered minor, but decided to. We saw a significant increase in the number of paper airplanes being thrown during closing. They are beautiful in flight, but once they touch the ground, they turn to trash – an eyesore that someone needs to pick up. I recognize that throwing paper airplanes is fun, and that folks in the stands don’t have much to do while waiting for ceremonies to start, but as a community I think we are not leaving a positive impression with this. - See more at:

So yeah, it's minor but it's still a problem... and if I've learned anything in my time in FRC it's that ChiefDelphi is the best place to discuss minor problems with highly opinionated people.

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by marshall

So yeah, it's minor but it's still a problem... and if I've learned anything in my time in FRC it's that ChiefDelphi is the best place to discuss minor problems with highly opinionated people.

Though for the record, the amount of planes thrown has definitely also increased between when he posted that blog 2 years ago and now.

[gblake]

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8

... I ... wont force my opinions down your throat. ...

I'm pretty sure that is exactly the result, if you throw an airplane without having convinced this audience that your opinion is correct.

[Monochron]

Originally Posted by EricH

As far as it happening every year, I can vouch that that's NOT the case. Seems to have started only after FIRST moved the CMP to St. Louis. It leaves a lot of extra trash for somebody to clean up (and I would hope that the throwers do try to clean some up...)

For what its worth, I remember the planes flying back in 2007 in Atlanta, but they were no where near as prevalent as they were last weekend.

[Sperkowsky]

After attending champs and being on the floor for Opening Ceremonies, all of Practice, and Qual matches along with Newton Elims I can now say the Paper airplanes have to chill. During field cleanup Friday morning I decided to count how many airplanes I threw out. (42 for anyone that cares). Some of these planes were not even planes I found cups with hollowed out fronts, pieces of paper folded in half, and some crappy oragami slightly resembling planes.

They are fun clearly. I was tempted to throw and few down but didn't. (I did throw one from the floor up but does that count But, they make us look like a bunch of compulsive immature kids.

I want paper airplanes to stay but not like this. There should be one sanctioned time where everyone can get it out of their system. It could look really cool and they can make safety goggles 'Mandatory'. Everyone writes their names and team # on their plane and the plane that reaches the farthest gets the member a prize. It would be a fun time killer. Definitely more fun then yet another speech talking about how inspired we all are and how great FIRST is.

[Chi Meson]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

I want paper airplanes to stay but not like this. There should be one sanctioned time where everyone can get it out of their system. It could look really cool and they can make safety goggles 'Mandatory'. Everyone writes their names and team # on their plane and the plane that reaches the farthest gets the member a prize. It would be a fun time killer. Definitely more fun then yet another speech talking about how inspired we all are and how great FIRST is.

I concur.

[roboruler]

Up in the VIP stand during Einstein and the closing ceremony, there were some 254 mentors putting their NASUH engineering skills to the test (not all 254 mentors are from NASA), the things they built were fine examples of what a paper aeroplane should be, they only threw one or two each and didn’t throw towards the field or during matches. Maybe NASA could pass on similar knowledge to all the students of FIRST?

254 build the best planes and the best robots

(This is not a mentor built stab)