Being Proactive About Paper Airplanes on Einstein

[TheModMaster8]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

Then you can get off your butt and help clean up the mess they made. I'm not doing it this year!

I have, every year Ive gone to worlds... extensively, Ive also been hit, have hit some else and made apologies and stopped when asked, even though they where more then angry at me. not because of authority but rather a moral code I've instilled in myself when it would have been much easier to reply in an unfit manner.

I did and my team isn't competing this year. I'm here representing my company and trying to drag them into this as a corporate sponsor at an international level. My goals are made more difficult by hormone-riddled teenagers having conniption fits about throwing paper airplanes though.

If your company cant see past the hormones of KIDS and see the value that these kids have learned and done, then there is a bigger problem then what you're complaining (for lack of a better word) about

[gblake]

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8

If your company cant see past the hormones of KIDS and see the value that these kids have learned and done, then there is a bigger problem then what you're complaining (for lack of a better word) about

If someone can't exercise enough self-restraint to not toss paper airplanes, just because they happen to find themselves in a large building, then I'm afraid that whatever they might have learned from FIRST is a house built on sand.

Houses built on sand aren't sought after.

Blake

[gblake]

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8

...
"but you don't have a right to tell those of us who are not on your team to stop because you find it disrespectful or immature." Was me giving you a fact which can also be taken as telling you.
...

Sure he does. It takes a village.

No one is supposed to be throwing anything at other people (bystanders) in the dome. Where-o-where did you ever get the notion into your head that anything else was correct?

If you want to plant your flag of rebellion/independence, you should pick a more important subject - Preferably one in which civility, local regulations, and laws are on your side; or one in which a great injustice needs to be corrected - This subject is neither.

Blake

[TheModMaster8]

Originally Posted by gblake

Sure he does. It takes a village.

No one is supposed to be throwing anything at other people (bystanders) in the dome. Where-o-where did you ever get the notion into your head that anything else was correct?

If you want to plant your flag of rebellion/independence, you should pick a more important subject - Preferably one in which civility, local regulations, and laws are on your side; or one in which a great injustice needs to be corrected - This subject is neither.

Blake

Who ever said throwing them at people? as far as I'm aware, it is to get the airplane to go the furthest, it just turns out that a lot of people suck at making airplanes. By what authority were you given to say that your stance on a matter is correct? were do you get off calling me or anyone else that partakes in this action rebellious. I personally have not seen nor heard FIRST request/ prohibit people to stop. so technically the rules would are on my side, as you are trying to enforce a none existent rule onto others because you find the act distasteful,

If someone can't exercise enough self-restraint to not toss paper airplanes, just because they happen to find themselves in a large building, then I'm afraid that whatever they might have learned from FIRST is a house built on sand.

What a faulty notion. if someone throws a paper airplane then everything they have learned will fall apart? Last year a high ranking official from the United States Air Force complimented this activity and even when so far out to take the ones on the stage with him to remember FIRST by. I don't know about you but That man obviously saw something you all did not. I can't and wont force my opinions down your throat.( I'm also finished with this topic as the amount of criticism I've received from you all if much greater then what I feel I deserve for such a topic.)

[marshall]

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8

I have, every year Ive gone to worlds... extensively, Ive also been hit, have hit some else and made apologies and stopped when asked, even though they where more then angry at me. not because of authority but rather a moral code I've instilled in myself when it would have been much easier to reply in an unfit manner.


If your company cant see past the hormones of KIDS and see the value that these kids have learned and done, then there is a bigger problem then what you're complaining (for lack of a better word) about

Just because someone or a group of someone's is willing to see past a problem doesn't mean there isn't a problem. My simple suggestion and ask is please stop throwing the planes.

[frcguy]

No one is disputing that paper airplanes are fun. In fact, I'm sure we would all love to throw paper airplanes, however, they seriously inconvenience event staff and volunteers. After a long and hard week of working at championships, the last thing volunteers want to do is spend hours cleaning up paper airplanes. While it may not be an official rule, it is the respectful thing to do. Let's all take some time to thank all of the volunteers today by being respectful and not create excessive litter for them to clean up.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8

Who ever said throwing them at people? as far as I'm aware, it is to get the airplane to go the furthest, it just turns out that a lot of people suck at making airplanes. By what authority were you given to say that your stance on a matter is correct? were do you get off calling me or anyone else that partakes in this action rebellious. I personally have not seen nor heard FIRST request/ prohibit people to stop. so technically the rules would are on my side, as you are trying to enforce a none existent rule onto others because you find the act distasteful,

You'll pardon me for saying this, but when you throw from any level of the dome, there are people below you, am I not correct? I do realize that you're not throwing AT those people, but you are most certainly throwing TOWARDS those people, and the fact that they are below you makes your paper airplane much more dangerous. And the fact that you're throwing towards people and cannot aim once you've released your projectile means that you may as well be throwing at them.

Additionally, you might not have heard it, but Frank (Director of FRC) has posted on the FRC blog in the past to not do it, AND some of my team has told me that there was an announcement yesterday. Whether you pay attention to those announcements or not, it has been announced, at very high levels of FRC. The rules of FRC might not have been updated, but they are rather not on your side here.

I believe that uncivil behavior is, in fact, a card-grade penalty (after a talk with appropriate officials, that is). Should, of course, throwing paper airplanes be regarded as uncivil behavior (depending on timing, it's a minimum of disrespectful), and should, of course, the throwers be identified, then that's what they can expect.

[gblake]

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8

... I ... wont force my opinions down your throat. ...

I'm pretty sure that is exactly the result, if you throw an airplane without having convinced this audience that your opinion is correct.

[BrennanB]

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8

If your company cant see past the hormones of KIDS and see the value that these kids have learned and done, then there is a bigger problem then what you're complaining (for lack of a better word) about

Pretty sure kids are intelligent enough to not have to throw garbage onto the field because they are bored. I mean REALLY? are you seriously suggesting that kids are physically incapable of not mass littering a the dome because of hormones!?!?!? That is literally the lamest excuse/reason/explanation I have heard for the pro-throwing paper airplanes like ever. Its not like you are walking down the street and you see a group of teens just throwing garbage around all over the floor/street/icerink/anywhere and you think "pfft, ah well kids hormones, what are you going to do?" Like that doesn't happen. AND if it did, you would likely be disgusted?

Just wow.

[marshall]

Originally Posted by EricH

You'll pardon me for saying this, but when you throw from any level of the dome, there are people below you, am I not correct? I do realize that you're not throwing AT those people, but you are most certainly throwing TOWARDS those people, and the fact that they are below you makes your paper airplane much more dangerous. And the fact that you're throwing towards people and cannot aim once you've released your projectile means that you may as well be throwing at them.

Additionally, you might not have heard it, but Frank (Director of FRC) has posted on the FRC blog in the past to not do it, AND some of my team has told me that there was an announcement yesterday. Whether you pay attention to those announcements or not, it has been announced, at very high levels of FRC. The rules of FRC might not have been updated, but they are rather not on your side here.

I believe that uncivil behavior is, in fact, a card-grade penalty (after a talk with appropriate officials, that is). Should, of course, throwing paper airplanes be regarded as uncivil behavior (depending on timing, it's a minimum of disrespectful), and should, of course, the throwers be identified, then that's what they can expect.

Relevant blog from Frank:
http://www.firstinspires.org/robotic...-Pros-and-Cons

Originally Posted by FRC's Frank

Paper airplanes – I was on the fence about listing this one, because it could be considered minor, but decided to. We saw a significant increase in the number of paper airplanes being thrown during closing. They are beautiful in flight, but once they touch the ground, they turn to trash – an eyesore that someone needs to pick up. I recognize that throwing paper airplanes is fun, and that folks in the stands don’t have much to do while waiting for ceremonies to start, but as a community I think we are not leaving a positive impression with this. - See more at:

So yeah, it's minor but it's still a problem... and if I've learned anything in my time in FRC it's that ChiefDelphi is the best place to discuss minor problems with highly opinionated people.

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by marshall

So yeah, it's minor but it's still a problem... and if I've learned anything in my time in FRC it's that ChiefDelphi is the best place to discuss minor problems with highly opinionated people.

Though for the record, the amount of planes thrown has definitely also increased between when he posted that blog 2 years ago and now.

[frcguy]

Well, it's still field setup and the airplanes are raining down from the stands. I'm really not amused, especially by the people who are intentionally trying to throw them into the Newton Field towers. Come on people, FIRST teams are better than this.

[Alex2614]

Originally Posted by hrench

Actually, I'm a mentor that doesn't think this is that big of deal.

Yes, airplanes shouldn't be thrown when important things are happening and they shouldn't have anything but paper in them. But certainly they're not more dangerous than great big beach balls that routinely hit people in the head.

Paper airplanes are
1. an engineering competition
2. a social activity
3. a science demonstration.

I could go on. They're fun.

Yes, we could be staring into our cell phones instead. I prefer this.

Also, yes, OK, it's a big mess. Especially if people bring paper just for this, but in my experience it's been mostly paper from scouting reports, safety 'posters' and re-used paper and I'm mostly unfolding someone else's airplanes and making better ones. First isn't noted for being terribly green. And if you're re-folding planes, then you're 'reusing' right? The stadium-world is used to cleaning up huge messes after every event.

I'm not sure about this, but I suspect the people that have to clean these up are employees of the stadium, paid by the hour. They'll have to sweep the floor anyway, so sweeping airplanes isn't that much of a big deal. This actually gives them more work, hence more money. I doubt you'll hear them complaining if this is correct. Better than sweeping up beer bottles after a football game.

When I read the title 'being proactive' I thought this string would be about looking up and practicing actual airplane designs that are good, that win contests. Not just the boring barely-works dart planes most of you are throwing.

Yes, I mentor in paper airplane design too.

And if the people in charge want it to stop, and say so, I'll go along, but that wouldn't be my preference.

I used to think like this. But the paper airplanes were cool when it was a few here and there that would be cheered for. When you are hit in the back of the head with paper airplanes constantly for six hours, you'll have a different perspective. When they have to replay Einstein matches because of airplanes, you will think differently. I'm sitting here now and hundreds of airplanes are being thrown and falling either in front of my face or to the back of my head constantly. It's not cool anymore.

Watching Einstein isn't all that much fun when you're being pelted in the back of the head every minute with poorly made paper airplanes.

[XaulZan11]

Interesting that they announce to everyone to turn off wireless on their phones, but say nothing about airplanes. I guess if people feel strongly about this, contacting/complaining to FIRST may be a better idea.

[fnsnet]

The field volunteers and I sat on the floor of the dome by gate A during opening ceremony on Thursday, and the paper airplanes were raining down on us constantly throughout the ceremony. At best, it's annoying to manage and clean off of the floor, and in a number of instances (including my wife) volunteers were hit with planes. You may think they are "just paper" but falling paper, particularly if they have had a trajectory, hurt when they hit you.

After the ceremony, we have to stick around to clean it all up instead of going out to enjoy the city.

From the bottom of my heart, please stop.