What will FRC 2016 Stronghold be remembered by?

[natejo99]

The "Carver Curse" was broken.

[Connor McBride]

330. Enough said.

-Connor

[Type]

Stronghold will go down in history as the "Great Pneumatic Wheel Shortage". I believe everyone will also remember it as one of the most abusive years. Last year our robot never broke, this year we were surprised when we rolled our robot into the pit every once in awhile and find out that nothing broke.

[sarah_storer]

Personally, I think this year will be remembered by how many different configurations the field could have. This feature really added to the strategy discussions because of defense selection and kept things interesting as opposed to stagnant.

[CloakAndDagger]

Also, I must say that the inclusion of Disney imagineering to this game was an excellent idea

[lethc]

Personally I loved the theme. I think they went all in with it (defenses, towers, capturing, standards.. etc.) and it really paid off. If FIRST continues this trend with as much success as they had this year I think it will be a huge step in making the organization more accessible to the public.

[Brian Michell]

To my team it will be remembered as the "Great Rhino Drive Debacle". We lost 3 weeks trying to get a drive train. Everybody had their heart set on a rhino drive but we could never get one. RhinoDrive has become a word that is jokingly banned in the club.

[dirtbikerxz]

Originally Posted by Brian Michell

To my team it will be remembered as the "Great Rhino Drive Debacle". We lost 3 weeks trying to get a drive train. Everybody had their heart set on a rhino drive but we could never get one. RhinoDrive has become a word that is jokingly banned in the club.

In my opinion, I am glad you didn't get a rhino drive. We were in the pit right behind you guys at lone star, and I think I remember you guys had pneumatic. Anyway, there were so many teams that had problems with rhino. They broke down a lot. And even when they didn't break down, they simply couldn't match the speed, agility, and toughness that a good drive train with pneumatic wheels had. No Rhino bot would have been able to maneuver like a bot like ours.

[maxnz]

Originally Posted by dirtbikerxz

In my opinion, I am glad you didn't get a rhino drive. We were in the pit right behind you guys at lone star, and I think I remember you guys had pneumatic. Anyway, there were so many teams that had problems with rhino. They broke down a lot. And even when they didn't break down, they simply couldn't match the speed, agility, and toughness that a good drive train with pneumatic wheels had. No Rhino bot would have been able to maneuver like a bot like ours.

Low pressure pneumatic wheels for the win!*

*They make you bounce a lot if you inflate them 'correctly'

[dirtbikerxz]

Originally Posted by maxnz

Low pressure pneumatic wheels for the win!*

*They make you bounce a lot if you inflate them 'correctly'

We tried leaving the wheels low pressure for our first match this season, but after that match, as the driver I felt a lot of sluggishness, so I had them filled up to close to max...... Let's just say, If you knew how to drive and play right... they were a godsend. No terrain defense stood a chance, we literally "hopped" over all of them. And the speed our bot was able to get out of them (close to 30 ft/sec, more like 26) was insane.

[Anthony Galea]

Originally Posted by dirtbikerxz

In my opinion, I am glad you didn't get a rhino drive. We were in the pit right behind you guys at lone star, and I think I remember you guys had pneumatic. Anyway, there were so many teams that had problems with rhino. They broke down a lot. And even when they didn't break down, they simply couldn't match the speed, agility, and toughness that a good drive train with pneumatic wheels had. No Rhino bot would have been able to maneuver like a bot like ours.

I believe that only one team with Rhino treads made Einstein (5050). So I would agree that they usually not worth the trouble.

[Chris is me]

I wouldn't say they weren't worth the trouble. It was possible to build a better system custom, sure, but Rhino treads helped hundreds of teams field competitive drivetrains that could cross defenses, and I'm willing to bet at least half of those teams would not have been able to do so otherwise. They were a fine product and a good solution for this year's game. They were not free of issues, but that applies to many, MANY custom drivetrains this year as well.

While I very much could be wrong on this one, I believe 195's treads were a custom variant of the Rhino tread system as well? So more than one Einstein team was rocking treads in any case. And you can't necessarily consider lack of use as an argument against the effectiveness of a drive system that was introduced very shortly before Kickoff - many teams simply were not willing to take a risk on a new product like that in a system as critical as the drivetrain.

[dirtbikerxz]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

I wouldn't say they weren't worth the trouble. It was possible to build a better system custom, sure, but Rhino treads helped hundreds of teams field competitive drivetrains that could cross defenses, and I'm willing to bet at least half of those teams would not have been able to do so otherwise.

Please excuse my ignorance, no arrogance meant here at all, but was building a 6 or so wheel pneumatic (west coast) drive train that could perform decently well really that complicated? (Again no arrogance here, just curious)

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by dirtbikerxz

Please excuse my ignorance, no arrogance meant here at all, but was building a 6 or so wheel pneumatic (west coast) drive train that could perform decently well really that complicated? (Again no arrogance here, just curious)

Surprisingly, yes. There were several issues with it this year.

• The "standard" WCD 16 tooth sprocket was simply not adequate to take the hard loads of the FRC field. Dozens of teams dealt with sprocket failure all season trying to cope with the extra forces involved.
• Leaving no gaps in the drivetrain to prevent getting stuck on the rough terrain or moat while traversing slowly required attention to design details and usually more than six wheels. You could get a running start and avoid these issues most of the time, but not always.
• In some cases, you could improperly load the old lower load 1/2" hex bearings or 1/2" hex shafts of weaker material.
• Building a custom drivetrain at all is out of the reach of a large number of FRC teams; at least building one that is better than a commercial product. Vex has made this very easy in the last few years though.

[emeraldstorm]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

I wouldn't say they weren't worth the trouble. It was possible to build a better system custom, sure, but Rhino treads helped hundreds of teams field competitive drivetrains that could cross defenses, and I'm willing to bet at least half of those teams would not have been able to do so otherwise. They were a fine product and a good solution for this year's game. They were not free of issues, but that applies to many, MANY custom drivetrains this year as well.

While I very much could be wrong on this one, I believe 195's treads were a custom variant of the Rhino tread system as well? So more than one Einstein team was rocking treads in any case. And you can't necessarily consider lack of use as an argument against the effectiveness of a drive system that was introduced very shortly before Kickoff - many teams simply were not willing to take a risk on a new product like that in a system as critical as the drivetrain.

Our team went with the RhinoTreads this year, and if I were to do it all over again, I would definitely go with a pneumatic wheel base. The treads caused too many compatibility and reliability issues with us, even with the upgraded pulleys. A 6WD or 8WD 8" pneumatic drivetrain, welded aluminum 1x1" frame, and 6-CIM PTO. We're gonna have the CAD and engineering power next year, and I'm really feeling it.

Now, for a beginner product, it certainly worked well. It put up well for what the game did to the robots. Nobody on our current team had any drivetrain engineering experience, and we went with what everybody else was going for. Thing is, it's a base product. It could easily be improved upon, yet serves the purpose quite adequately, just like any other base drivetrain you can order. And, it was a direct upgrade to the AM14U3 chassis. I saw several unlucky teams getting their chassis bent to hell in one day.