Should match 1 on Einstein be replayed?

[BrennanB]

Dunno about you, but I like to make calls based on the live scoring.

[tstew]

Originally Posted by AquaMorph

However, since the game sounds were not working that is clearly a field fault since that is apart of the game in the rule manual.

Did you read the bluebox?

Originally Posted by FRC Game Manual - T20 Blue Box

Note that an ARENA FAULT that does not affect MATCH outcome in the judgement of the Head REFEREE does not lead to a MATCH replay. Examples include, but are not limited to:
A. a piece of FIELD plastic falls into the FIELD in the last 5 seconds of a MATCH, far away from any human or ROBOT activity, and in such a way that it does not affect MATCH outcome
B. delay in the playing of an ARENA sound
C. mismatch between the timer on the Audience Screen and the FIELD Timer

The timer in the middle player station marked with white tape along the bottom edge displays the official time remaining in AUTO, and TELEOP. Teams should rely on this, not the timer on the Audience Screen or ARENA sounds.

[Carl C]

I feel like the head referees at Championships probably have a better understanding of the rules and how they apply than we bystanders here on Chief Delphi.

[AquaMorph]

Originally Posted by tstew

Did you read the bluebox?


The timer in the middle player station marked with white tape along the bottom edge displays the official time remaining in AUTO, and TELEOP. Teams should rely on this, not the timer on the Audience Screen or ARENA sounds.

A delay is not the same as no sounds altogether.

[mott]

Being in the stands during this match and having experience as the field coach for our team this season, I was screaming for the "Field Fault" to called almost immediately after the start of the match.

This game isn't really one that can be at the highest level without the scoreboard being available. No argument that the lack of a scoreboard was an equal disadvantage for both alliances but it shouldn't be something that happens on Einstein.

Fortunately, no robots were damaged during the "voided match" that could have been stopped well before it's conclusion.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Carl C

I feel like the head referees at Championships probably have a better understanding of the rules and how they apply than we bystanders here on Chief Delphi.

After one of the Mass matches, I'm inclined to watch the video again and try to figure out how a card wasn't issued...

[Philip Arola]

Originally Posted by AquaMorph

A delay is not the same as no sounds altogether.

This. Spectators (at least on the 400 level) will know that the sound went wonky (like the main set of speakers went out) before the match started, and that the screens had no info, just the video feed. This field fault went beyond a simple delay in field sound.

[Ninjastahr]

Originally Posted by Philip Arola

This. Spectators (at least on the 400 level) will know that the sound went wonky (like the main set of speakers went out) before the match started, and that the screens had no info, just the video feed. This field fault went beyond a simple delay in field sound.

During the Iowa Regional, the sound to announce the beginning of Teleop was not played during a match my team participated in, but the match was not replayed. Just food for thought.

[Tyler_Kaplan]

The reason it was replayed was mainly because of the sounds. There was no sounds to indicate the end of autonomous, or for when teams could hang. Having been a drive coach before, not knowing exactly when you can start the end game, or when the match is close to ending, has a very large impact for split second decisions you have to make. Sure you have the time being displayed, but there are so many things you have to be watching and thinking about, especially if you are expecting those sounds to go off.

[Chris is me]

If you don't think real time scoring has a direct and important impact on strategy and match play, and that losing such a critical feature of the field isn't grounds for a field fault and replay, I find it hard to believe you've ever coached or driven in a match of Stronghold.

If the defense crossing lights went out, would you call that a field fault? Of course you would. But what is that displaying to you? Essentially, just a more abstract version of the real time score.

If the on field match timer went out, would you call that a field fault? I would hope we would all agree that the match timer is an essential part of the game and that it is continuously needed information.

The real time score is exactly the same. If you're a competitive team this year, you were keeping your eyes on it all match. Deciding whether to shoot high or low, deciding whether to play offense or defense, deciding whether or not to go for that very last ball or make the conservative play and go for the batter early in the end game. It should be plainly obvious how strategically valuable and important real time score is.

Situations like these should be a replay, every single time they occur. No questions asked. I legitimately cannot understand the argument against it.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

If you don't think real time scoring has a direct and important impact on strategy and match play, and that losing such a critical feature of the field isn't grounds for a field fault and replay, I find it hard to believe you've ever coached or driven in a match of Stronghold.

If the defense crossing lights went out, would you call that a field fault? Of course you would. But what is that displaying to you? Essentially, just a more abstract version of the real time score.

If the on field match timer went out, would you call that a field fault? I would hope we would all agree that the match timer is an essential part of the game and that it is continuously needed information.

The real time score is exactly the same. If you're a competitive team this year, you were keeping your eyes on it all match. Deciding whether to shoot high or low, deciding whether to play offense or defense, deciding whether or not to go for that very last ball or make the conservative play and go for the batter early in the end game. It should be plainly obvious how strategically valuable and important real time score is.

Situations like these should be a replay, every single time they occur. No questions asked. I legitimately cannot understand the argument against it.

I'm mostly flummoxed as to why they played through when everyone knew the live scoring was boned during autonomous.There was a window where the FTA or head referee could have hit the foghorn, and it wasn't after the score was posted.

We went to district events where we couldn't see live scoring and were told to deal with it. I recognize that real time scoring was a huge need this year but it's important to recognize that this replay is just the most obvious showing of the inconsistency I hope is fixed in future games. Challenge points, scale points, and capture bonuses being added at inconsistent times and not providing an ability for all 6 drive teams to see the real time scoring at all events are bad things that were dumb.

[TDav540]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

..........Challenge points, scale points, and capture bonuses being added at inconsistent times and not providing an ability for all 6 drive teams to see the real time scoring at all events are bad things that were dumb.

While I can't speak for the rest of it, this was due to how scores are processed in the FMS. The referee panel switches to the Endgame screen at the 20 second mark. However, it will not complete the scoring of the endgame until BOTH referee panels match on each side the field. This can be after the match has officially ended, making the challenge, scale, and capture information basically impossible to live score. It's unfortunate, but reasonable, IMO.

Back to the OP, although it is technically not legal to replay the match, at this stage of the season, I find it reasonable to give both teams the live scoring and sounds.

[jds2001]

Originally Posted by TDav540

While I can't speak for the rest of it, this was due to how scores are processed in the FMS. The referee panel switches to the Endgame screen at the 20 second mark. However, it will not complete the scoring of the endgame until BOTH referee panels match on each side the field. This can be after the match has officially ended, making the challenge, scale, and capture information basically impossible to live score. It's unfortunate, but reasonable, IMO.

There were some instructions given to CMP refs regarding this, and I hope it was more consistent. I'm not comfortable sharing exactly what the instructions were, but this is something that was known and accounted for.

Back to the OP, although it is technically not legal to replay the match, at this stage of the season, I find it reasonable to give both teams the live scoring and sounds.

I also noticed something on Einstein that was against ref instructions for the rest of the season - but Aidan was the head ref, and he's the big cheese - so whatever was fine IMO (and this particular thing I agree with being done on Einstein - and pretty much only there). Again, not entirely comfortable sharing details.

As for the actual replay, I'd leave it to head ref discretion - though I think it was justified.

[Pauline Tasci]

100% should of been replayed and glad it was.
Not having live scoring is terrible for trying to make on the spot strategy decisions that make or break a match.
With that said, I wish they would of stopped the match after Auto so we would not of revealed our strategy.
Or even hold off on the score until a call of replay was made. It popped up directly after match end.
Got my kids hopes up and then crushed them down 5 minutes later.

The replay was necessary.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by TDav540

While I can't speak for the rest of it, this was due to how scores are processed in the FMS. The referee panel switches to the Endgame screen at the 20 second mark. However, it will not complete the scoring of the endgame until BOTH referee panels match on each side the field. This can be after the match has officially ended, making the challenge, scale, and capture information basically impossible to live score. It's unfortunate, but reasonable, IMO.

Back to the OP, although it is technically not legal to replay the match, at this stage of the season, I find it reasonable to give both teams the live scoring and sounds.

The issue arises in these endgame points apparently showing up live for one alliance but not another, which is confusing.