Poofs Red Card Question?

[dubiousSwain]

Does anyone have a link to the video?

[Arhowk]

Also, the second yellow card wasn't for the Auton thing, it was because a team member entered the field before the green lights were on

[Sperkowsky]

I have a lot to say about this as I was a few feet away from the whole thing. Except a very in depth post tomorrow.

[Jared Russell]

The refs made two very tough calls for our alliance, but were trying to do the right thing in the face of imprecise rules and indirect observations of what actually happened on the field. I cannot in good faith fault them for either call when I look at the letter of the rules, even though I think there is a bit of disparity between the way the refs called things on Newton and how they called things in our previous events both in 2016 and previously.

[apache8080]

Originally Posted by Jared Russell

The refs made two very tough calls for our alliance, but were trying to do the right thing in the face of imprecise rules and indirect observations of what actually happened on the field. I cannot in good faith fault them for either call when I look at the letter of the rules, even though I think there is a bit of disparity between the way the refs called things on Newton and how they called things in our previous events both in 2016 and previously.

I am still confused as to why the tethering yellow card was called. When I was watching the stream, 1241 was with an FTA when they were tethered to the robot. By the rule isn't that legal. It was an unfortunate incident to an otherwise great event. Despite this 254 and 1241 were a great alliance to watch on Newton.

[AWoL]

Originally Posted by apache8080

I am still confused as to why the tethering yellow card was called. When I was watching the stream, 1241 was with an FTA when they were tethered to the robot. By the rule isn't that legal. It was an unfortunate incident to an otherwise great event. Despite this 254 and 1241 were a great alliance to watch on Newton.

Did the tethering happen after the field timeout, or started during the field timeout and continued once it ended? That would be grounds for a yellow card.

[PatEhrgott]

Link is here for anyone interested https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60k9XvKra0Q

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by PatEhrgott

Link is here for anyone interested https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60k9XvKra0Q

I would like to see a video that includes the usual pre-match "thumbs up" to the head referee, usually given by all referees and the FTA. Neither of the yellow card violations can be seen in any of the videos I've found so far*, and I could not see them from Section 125 either.

What I did see was the red alliance outrunning and outgunning us, while we committed several fouls and missed the capture. We were clearly outplayed.

As Jared said, this was a tough situation for the referees. Over the season, Stronghold found out many weaknesses in robot design, in game play strategy, and especially in durability -- both of the robots and of the field. In this match it found out another weakness -- in the rules themselves.

Generally, the remedy for pre-match infractions is to correct the situation before starting the match. In this case it appears the match was lost on cards before it even started.** That can't be what FIRST wanted.
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*Linked earlier in this thread, and on TBA.

**I am going with some earlier posts in this thread stating that the yellow cards were for entering the field early (G2) and tethering without express permission (G10). While some red alliance drive team members did touch controls during auton, it appeared to me they were just picking them up after a blue robot shook the castle wall, causing them to fall. This is allowed for operator console safety per G14. Please correct me if you saw something different.

[ATannahill]

Originally Posted by Richard Wallace

I would like to see a video that includes the usual pre-match "thumbs up" to the head referee, usually given by all referees and the FTA. Neither of the yellow card violations can be seen in any of the videos I've found so far*, and I could not see them from Section 125 either.

What I did see was the red alliance outrunning and outgunning us, while we committed several fouls and missed the capture. We were clearly outplayed.

As Jared said, this was a tough situation for the referees. Over the season, Stronghold found out many weaknesses in robot design, in game play strategy, and especially in durability -- both of the robots and of the field. In this match it found out another weakness -- in the rules themselves.

Generally, the remedy for pre-match infractions is to correct the situation before starting the match. In this case it appears the match was lost on cards before it even started.** That can't be what FIRST wanted.
--------------

*Linked earlier in this thread, and on TBA.

**I am going with some earlier posts in this thread stating that the yellow cards were for entering the field early (G2) and tethering without express permission (G10). While some red alliance drive team members did touch controls during auton, it appeared to me they were just picking them up after a blue robot shook the castle wall, causing them to fall. This is allowed for operator console safety per G14. Please correct me if you saw something different.

Listen again to the end of the video in your quote. The second yellow card was was for touching the controls during autonomous. The match was not lost when it started because the second yellow card had not happened.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by rtfgnow

Listen again to the end of the video in your quote. The second yellow card was was for touching the controls during autonomous. The match was not lost when it started because the second yellow card had not happened.

I don't see how that yellowcard is valid. Doesn't G14 provide a specific exemption for operator console safety?

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by rtfgnow

Listen again to the end of the video in your quote. The second yellow card was was for touching the controls during autonomous. The match was not lost when it started because the second yellow card had not happened.

Thanks for the correction. I had missed the audio by not waiting long enough, and skipping to the score. Hearing it now I do recall the announcement but had not caught the part about touching controls.

The announcement does not match what I could see in the corner of the video, which as I said earlier appeared to be red alliance team members picking up controls that had been knocked off the shelf when a blue robot shook the castle wall during auton. Having seen this several times (as a referee) during matches earlier in the season, I did not think it was a G14. I guess the referees saw a team member touch controls in a way that was not required to ensure operator console safety? As Jared said, it was a tough situation for the referees.

[Sperkowsky]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

I don't see how that yellowcard is valid. Doesn't G14 provide a specific exemption for operator console safety?

Yes it does and the hit definitely was worse looking in person. Nothing fell off the console but it was definitely rattled. Looks to me like they are just checking if everything is OK which is perfectly valid.

Regardless it's pretty stupid to card someone for 2 actions that provide no competitive advantage. Especially after all of the fouls the other alliance committed during that match.

[ATannahill]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

I don't see how that yellowcard is valid. Doesn't G14 provide a specific exemption for operator console safety?

I am not going to comment on validity. I simply stated the fact as it was reported by the head ref and then the game announcer.

[Michael Corsetto]

Originally Posted by Richard Wallace

As Jared said, it was a tough situation for the referees.

This seems like an easy situation for the referees. Just don't yellow card a team for recovering their operator console after a hard hit from the driver station?

Are adults in this program really looking to penalize teams for things like this, to the level of a red card, and subsequent DQ?

Seems like some discretion in these situations is appropriate?

It doesn't seem like, in these sorts of moments, we're all playing on the same team.

I'm not upset with a call. I'm upset with an attitude.

Semi-relevant thread: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=127911

-Mike

[Kevin Sheridan]

Better view from 1676's full field footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=671pGv2wlmU

The explanation our alliance was given before match 3 was that a referee saw one of the drivers untangling the cords of a controller. While I dont agree with the call that was made, I can see why the ref thought there was a G14 violation.