Stronghold rant...

[Briansmithtown]

Ok, now this is my opinion as a spectator looking in on the game, and again this is my opinion, i'm not trying to change anyones perspective of the game or anything... Stronghold. I did not like this game particularly, and in this post ill give you all the reasons I can.

So it all started when they released the trailer... I feel like releasing the name of the game and the theme really kinda ruined some of the excitement. Sure it got people wondering, but the little clue drops every year is, in my opinion, best. But that's not a main issue to me. The second is that FIRST moved away from their idea of "its the sport for the mind". It became a automated medieval times, and a little boring at that.

When the game was released, I thought it was interesting...until I saw the end of the video. Then the first and only conclusion I came to was that this was nothing more then a game from the App store. And the medieval theme was contradictory. The theme would only attract a certain group of kids who are not already in FIRST Now lets get to the field. The fields looked cheesy, and the scoreboard and the sound effects where horrible. The game play was kinda boring, too. Everyone was mainly going for the one task, drive over the defenses. Cool at first, boring 90 matches later. There wasn't that much defense, either. Besides the obvious field defense, robots didn't pay too much attention of defense. The goal had too many obstacles, and it basically forced many of the robots to do the same thing.

I ventured out to watch the Orlando regional, and it was, for me, about a 2 and a half hour drive. I didn't stay more then an hour before losing interest.

Now I will say its much better then 2015, by a long shot. But taking away the sports aspect of it, adding gross sound effects, and overall game play I feel weakened this years game.

These are my opinions, and I may get hate for it, but its what I believe. My team did good this year, and I'm proud of them for doing good this year, but as a spectator, I feel that it became boring.

Also the whole foul thing is interesting. I don't have an opinion on that though.

[Hitchhiker 42]

Just to address a few points from my point of view:

Originally Posted by Briansmithtown

The game play was kinda boring, too. Everyone was mainly going for the one task, drive over the defenses.

Sure, the early stages of the game became boring: driving over defenses, again and again. But, from what I saw, there was plenty of peril and heart-pounding moments: "Will they get to the batter?" or "Can they finish off the CDF?" It's these moments that make the game good. And, as the game progressed into DCMPs and CMP, more and more robots were shooting, defending, etc.

Originally Posted by Briansmithtown

Cool at first, boring 90 matches later.

Isn't every game after you've watched it over and over again?

Originally Posted by Briansmithtown

There wasn't that much defense, either. Besides the obvious field defense, robots didn't pay too much attention of defense. The goal had too many obstacles, and it basically forced many of the robots to do the same thing.

I would tend to disagree. Sure, in qualifications there was not much defense, due to the extra RPs for what you do (not what you stop your opponent from doing). But, when the alliances got really good, defense became a big factor. I think it was 1405 on Einstein that had shut-down defense, leading them to finals. That was exciting to watch.

Anyway, these are my opinions.

[Briansmithtown]

I respect your feedback, and thank you for commenting.

[Mammaloon]

Although your opinion is probably not the majority, you made some interesting points. Although I was initially unsure about the "themed" game, in the end, I think it made the game more approachable, because everyone has heard the stories about knights and castles. I also feel as if this theme did nothing to take away or distract from the competitive nature of the competition, because in the end, we know that the best robots aren't judged on embracing the theme, they are judged on how they are made, and how they perform.

I'm not really sure what you mean about it being like a game from the app store, but as far as "the theme will only attract kids not already in FIRST", I think that is the whole point of the theme! If the theme has attracted more kids from "outside the tent" it has succeeded!

I am not really sure that the field was cheesy, but IMO, the scoring displays were pretty nice.

While I appreciate the sharing of opinions, keep an open mind about stronghold.

[Sperkowsky]

Out of the 3 games I have watched in person its ranked 2.

1. 2014
2. 2016
3. 2015

My gripes of 2016
The outer works provided too much protection
climbing should have been worth more
the reffing was terrible (I saw soo many bad calls this year more then usual) not due always to bad refs but too many game aspects for them to handle.
not enough defense
the field was too cluttered
the defenses were boring

Overall it was fun to play and watch imo but was not as interesting as 2014 after a few weeks of the season.

[Briansmithtown]

Originally Posted by Mammaloon

I'm not really sure what you mean about it being like a game from the app store

I mean it kinda just looks like clash of clans to me. Or a crude knock off. I mean that how you can choose where you want to put the defense, and which defense to use, etc.

[Briansmithtown]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

Out of the 3 games I have watched in person its ranked 2.

1. 2014
2. 2016
3. 2015

My gripes of 2016
The outer works provided too much protection
climbing should have been worth more
the reffing was terrible
not enough defense
the field was too cluttered
the defenses were boring

Overall it was fun to play and watch imo but was not as interesting as 2014 after a few weeks of the season.

I agree. This game wasn't the worst, but its not nearly the best. Also i had a hard time really trying to keep up with what was going on. I would watch a robot go over a defense and hope it was about to do a cool play, only to turn around and go back to the middle.

[Knufire]

This is also one of my favorite games that I've competed in (since 2010). Not as good as 2013, but it's a tossup between this and Rebound Rumble for #2.

[BobbyVanNess]

Originally Posted by Briansmithtown

I ventured out to watch the Orlando regional, and it was, for me, about a 2 and a half hour drive. I didn't stay more then an hour before losing interest.

With all due respect, if you've lost interest at a regional after an hour because of the game alone, then you've missed out on the other 90% of a FIRST Robotics Competition event. I think the fact that 600 teams and 20,000+ students and mentors will come to play Recycle Rush is a clear indicator that the game isn't everything.

That being said, the seniors on my team are the only ones that remember all the way back to Ultimate Ascent, but even they have been totally absorbed by literally every aspect of Stronghold. The theme, the challenge, the standards, and despite my increasing lack of tolerance, even the Monty Python puns...

I'll admit, I was skeptical when FIRST released the Disney teaser video. However, they backed it up with a great engineering challenge and some incredibly strategic gameplay. There's a reason that medieval themed App store games have had such success, and I think FIRST really hit it out of the park with Stronghold.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

My gripes of 2016
The outer works provided too much protection
climbing should have been worth more
the reffing was terrible
not enough defense
the field was too cluttered
the defenses were boring

You should know what happens when you make the gripe I've bolded...

If you're out in SoCal in late September, I think I've got a ref shirt with your name on it. Otherwise, I suspect any local offseasons that are short on ref-power would be more than happy to put you on the crew. I assume that you know the game at least as well as the refs do in order to make that statement.


That being said, I did see some "odd" calls. Whether or not that means the reffing is "terrible" is up to the viewer, I suppose.

[Sperkowsky]

Originally Posted by EricH

You should know what happens when you make the gripe I've bolded...

If you're out in SoCal in late September, I think I've got a ref shirt with your name on it. Otherwise, I suspect any local offseasons that are short on ref-power would be more than happy to put you on the crew. I assume that you know the game at least as well as the refs do in order to make that statement.


That being said, I did see some "odd" calls. Whether or not that means the reffing is "terrible" is up to the viewer, I suppose.

already signed up to be a ref at a few offseason comps.

I have no problem becoming a zebra if it means teams have a better experience.

[Briansmithtown]

Originally Posted by EricH

You should know what happens when you make the gripe I've bolded...

If you're out in SoCal in late September, I think I've got a ref shirt with your name on it. Otherwise, I suspect any local offseasons that are short on ref-power would be more than happy to put you on the crew. I assume that you know the game at least as well as the refs do in order to make that statement.


That being said, I did see some "odd" calls. Whether or not that means the reffing is "terrible" is up to the viewer, I suppose.

Oohohohoh shots fired by Eric! Nice!

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Briansmithtown

Oohohohoh shots fired by Eric! Nice!

And ably deflected, I might add. Seeing as how he's already volunteering, there isn't much I can say further. Must have read my mind.

[VacioArconte]

Opinions will vary on how fun Stronghold was to watch, and how hard it was to ref, and so forth. But the fact remains that the GDC made a game that less experienced teams could still compete in. A drivebase alone could score 20+ points this year. Much better than last year where a drivebase could maybe spend the whole match carefully pushing a tote over to the scoring platform.

[Briansmithtown]

Originally Posted by EricH

And ably deflected, I might add. Seeing as how he's already volunteering, there isn't much I can say further. Must have read my mind.

I think he took your metaphoric ref tee-shirt. ~groovy~