Highest ranked team not picked?

[FRC_498]

Originally Posted by AquaMorph

Rankings are not a good indicator for skill. Sometimes, good teams have a lower ranking because they had a tough schedule. Other times, the reverse happens and a team gets a higher ranking than they deserve. When this happens a lot of times they will have a ranking that would lead to being picked if everyone is just picked based off of ranks. However, teams scout and that team is normally not picked. Another thing that can happen is a robot being good at a select task but non of the alliances need that skill set when it comes around for their second or third pick.

This was true for our team on Archimedes, by Friday we had our 20 pt auto working and were averaging 5-6 Teleop high goal boulders per match but didn't get picked. I feel teams don't do enough scouting or at least get only a few top picks but when those are taken they are stuck. We knew we were in trouble when around teams 2nd pick they were looking up at the board for numbers.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto

I was actually with 1678 at the time, but took a brief hiatus from mentoring 1678 full-time when I moved to Lodi and mentored 1662 in 2012 and 2013.

This post is a crazy reminder to me of how fortunate I have been to work with 1678 over the last 9 years.

-Mike

Thanks for clarifying!

And thanks for the advice all those years ago

[GDB]

It's a shame that scouting is not looked at as much at championships because the basis of most teams is to have fun. I realize that for the most part is all about the FIRST experience but it's a shame some didn't realize the potential of other teams for their high level skill due to their ranks. Some teams were troubled due to bad matches with rookie teams and teams could not know that had happened if they actually did scout.

Next time Plasma Robotics will try harder to carry our whole team farther. Though it's very hard to carry through championships and regionals itself. We ranked 29th out of 76 teams and we were planning to get picked but our last two matches brought us down from the top 15 to the lower third of teams.

[sdcantrell56]

Originally Posted by GDB

It's a shame that scouting is not looked at as much at championships because the basis of most teams is to have fun. I realize that for the most part is all about the FIRST experience but it's a shame some didn't realize the potential of other teams for their high level skill due to their ranks. Some teams were troubled due to bad matches with rookie teams and teams could not know that had happened if they actually did scout.

Next time Plasma Robotics will try harder to carry our whole team farther. Though it's very hard to carry through championships and regionals itself. We ranked 29th out of 76 teams and we were planning to get picked but our last two matches brought us down from the top 15 to the lower third of teams.

Not sure why you think scouting isn't as big of a deal at Championship as at the lower levels. All of the top teams (ie teams playing in elims) are very much intensely scouting. You don't end up on Einstein without it.

[CVR]

Originally Posted by Citrus Dad

Exceptions to what? I know that 254, 971 and us all had very different robots at Champs than what we started with. Tuning through the competition season is critical.

I didn't mean to imply that powerhouse teams do not improve over the season, or show up to week 1 with perfect bots. I just meant that they generally go to their first event better equipped to handle the game than the average robot.

I can't speak much to the California bots not having seen them firsthand, but I did see 2056 draining shots at GTR-E when most robots were still adjusting their shooters to hit the target.

Similarly, last year 1114 was putting up 3 capped 6 stacks at GTR-E when most teams were just figuring out that they needed a ramp to be a HP bot.

Both of these robots made improvements over the season, but when you're at 95% capability, 100% is not as far away as when you start at 50%.

I just want to be clear, I'm not trying to belittle teams that come out of the gate with near-perfect robots. On the contrary they should be praised. But it is unreasonable for the majority of teams to expect this experience without prior planning. It is important to note that this experience is not out of reach for any team, they just need to set the proper goals for their individual situation. Karthik's strategy seminars are a great place to start, as are the Minimum Competitive Concept threads.

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by FRC_498

This was true for our team on Archimedes, by Friday we had our 20 pt auto working and were averaging 5-6 Teleop high goal boulders per match but didn't get picked. I feel teams don't do enough scouting or at least get only a few top picks but when those are taken they are stuck. We knew we were in trouble when around teams 2nd pick they were looking up at the board for numbers.

That's too bad that was happening. Teams that get to Champs should have some sort of scouting system in place just in case.

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by CVR

I didn't mean to imply that powerhouse teams do not improve over the season, or show up to week 1 with perfect bots. I just meant that they generally go to their first event better equipped to handle the game than the average robot.

I can't speak much to the California bots not having seen them firsthand, but I did see 2056 draining shots at GTR-E when most robots were still adjusting their shooters to hit the target.

Similarly, last year 1114 was putting up 3 capped 6 stacks at GTR-E when most teams were just figuring out that they needed a ramp to be a HP bot.

Both of these robots made improvements over the season, but when you're at 95% capability, 100% is not as far away as when you start at 50%.

I just want to be clear, I'm not trying to belittle teams that come out of the gate with near-perfect robots. On the contrary they should be praised. But it is unreasonable for the majority of teams to expect this experience without prior planning. It is important to note that this experience is not out of reach for any team, they just need to set the proper goals for their individual situation. Karthik's strategy seminars are a great place to start, as are the Minimum Competitive Concept threads.

I fully agree with this characterization. But it's $@#$@#$@#$@# hard to get that last 5% (and it's rarely achieved.)

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Citrus Dad

That's too bad that was happening. Teams that get to Champs should have some sort of scouting system in place just in case.

We were scouting up until late Friday, when we knew for sure we couldn't crack top 30.

Did notice that several other scouting operations shut down well before the replay of Galileo Q120 (played after the last match).

[Chief Hedgehog]

Originally Posted by ANiyaz

868 was ranked 42nd in Carson after Quals with an OPR of 64.40 (2nd in the divison to 1024). 868 was the first pick of the 6th alliance.

I believe that my team (4607) may be the lowest pick among the 256 elim teams. After quals on Carver, we were ranked 56 over all. This was due to our strategic choice to forgo any boulder points whatsoever and concentrate on what we know best - defense.

This was not an easy choice, but after our success with defense against 359 at Lake Superior in week 1, we decided to go this route throughout a Week 6 regional at North Star. We knew that we were taking a big leap and knowing that the 3v0 and 2v1 scenarios laid out by Ginger Power, this would be our best bet to set our team apart.

It worked. We are grateful that 503 and 359 picked us up as the 9th pick on Carver - we just wish we could do more. Our robot has the ability to play all ends of the game (breacher, shooter, defense, and climb) - yet we love to play defense all the way back to our rookie year (2013).

This years' CMP experience will definitely mold the team for years to come. And we are now better aware about how to play the game as one of the best defenders for Stronghold. We cannot wait to see what the MSHSL Tournament beholds for us as we know that 3042 and 4539 will also be defensive robots. Being one of the three dedicated defensive robots that can also work on other parts of the game will set us apart. And our drive team may be a little bit crazy - but they do so with committing very few penalties!

See you all on May 21 at the MSHSL tournament!

[Jscout11]

Originally Posted by Chief Hedgehog

I believe that my team (4607) may be the lowest pick among the 256 elim teams. After quals on Carver, we were ranked 56 over all. This was due to our strategic choice to forgo any boulder points whatsoever and concentrate on what we know best - defense.

I don't know if we were the lowest either, but team 11 was ranked 59 on Carson and picked for the 3rd pick of the second alliance.

Edit: Upon further inspection, team 1369 was ranked 75th on Carson and was picked for elims, making them at least tied for the lowest seed selected.

[lovelj]

I am confident all teams in elims were scouting and doing a good job. After 8 matches we were ranked 72nd yet were consistent in 20 pt auto on CDF and low bar, scoring 5 to 7 high goals per match. I think our first win was Q118 where we got 10 high goals and 20 pt auto (3824).

http://youtu.be/FKQ2AHvmJHE

Before that match, 2122 was in our pits talking about elims. Thier scouts saw we were a sleeper due to a tough draw. I'm always impressed with the level of scouting at championship. Last year our alliance captain at champs picked the 75th team as our 3rd bot. Generally, if you are highly ranked and not picked it's because either their scouting data suggests that they need something you don't have or they see an inconsistency or vulnerability that they need to avoid in the finals. We started self scouting years ago to keep ourselves honest as well as for marketing our team to others.

This year just seemed to have a higher percentage of low ranked teams getting picked which suggested to me that there was something implicit in the game that had a disproportionate number of strong teams with low rankings.

[lovelj]

Originally Posted by FRC_498

This was true for our team on Archimedes, by Friday we had our 20 pt auto working and were averaging 5-6 Teleop high goal boulders per match but didn't get picked. I feel teams don't do enough scouting or at least get only a few top picks but when those are taken they are stuck. We knew we were in trouble when around teams 2nd pick they were looking up at the board for numbers.

You definitely were overlooked and it's very frustrating for the team. I've seen this happen at almost every event. Mistakes happen and it can be disheartening for the students. If you are not doing so already, consider having one of your scouts devoted to self scouting and a small group of your best communicators using that data to market your team to the top teams in your division. Networking is good for both getting visibility at the competition as well as fostering long term relationships with other teams.