WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein

[cadandcookies]

I cannot agree with mrnoble's posts on this enough.

One of the big things lately has been increasing diversity in STEM fields-- this means appealing to and accepting people who do not fit the stereotypical mold of an engineer. I'm pretty standard engineer stock-- guess what, I'm a young, white man. The traditional values associated with engineering are similar to the ones I was raised with and (for the most part) live by. Part of that is language choice (yup, in third grade my dad grounded me for saying d--- while playing a football video game with him). In other areas, cultures, et cetera, that's hardly worth raising an eyebrow at. If we say we want diversity, but only if you'll talk and act like a stereotypical "respectable" old white man, I think we're missing the point.

Kudos to will.i.am for saying it how he (and I) feel it. Expletives serve a valuable purpose in communication, and expressing exactly how awesome something is is one of those purposes.

[dirtbikerxz]

Originally Posted by Lireal

We already got Miley on board : https://youtu.be/vYuOKb3gO7E?t=28s

whaaaaat, when did this happen?

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by dirtbikerxz

whaaaaat, when did this happen?

Back in 2011 there was a very short lived TV program for FIRST.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Mr. Jeff

I’ve been a mentor for 12 consecutive years and remained silent on Delphi, that stops today. Not many things make me angry, this did.

If William, Kamen, Flowers or FIRST won’t say it, I will.

It was WRONG and inappropriate.

Understanding the majority in attendance were kids raised on idealizing celebrities the shock factor was rewarded with a roar of applause. The crowds response in addition to all the positive supportive post greatly sadden me about we have become. If I have to explain why then our world is in worse shape than I thought. Was it a mistake that he wish he could take back? Maybe, if so he should say so. William boast about being from the hood, many are that are good decent role models. After Saturday I don’t recognize his accomplishment. Go ahead vulgarity supporters and rip me up if you'd like, I can take.

FIRST is supposed to change the culture, It appears the culture is changing FIRST.

Mr. Jeff Sparky 384

My comments do not reflect the opinion of my team.

Looks like I'm late, but in the grand tradition of Chief Delphi, I'll butt in and beat the dead horse anyway!

I guess you can think it's wrong or damaging, but I believe there are more pressing issues in FIRST, including the state we both live in!

-Team attrition in Virginia
-Lack of support for the truly desperate inner-city teams in Richmond
-Volunteer burnout and lack of depth
-Alumni burnout
-Mentor burnout
-Lack of decent programs even in populous and wealthy suburban areas
-Lack of cooperation between various parties in Virginia to make FIRST better
-The politics that contribute to most of, if not all of the above
-Adults that act like children, no cursing required!

So we disagree! Maybe I'm wrong! Maybe FIRST as a whole and the FIRST in Virginia product were crown jewels of this insular utopia until Dean let "William" dare to open his mouth and express emotion towards a program that, if it is not obvious, he is very passionate about.

When a bunch of pasty people parade around in some cheap ren-faire garb at these awesome robotics competitions, how the hell is that attracting kids to the program who need it? That is embarrassing. Some guy cursing on a hot mic at Champs isn't a black eye on FIRST, it's the old white people that nudge the kids that need this program out of the way by trying to wall off our world from those kids.

Wil Payne, Mech Tech Dragons, FRC Team 422
4 years a student, 4 years a coach
My opinions may not reflect that of everyone on my team but I sure as sunshine hope it does.

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by The other Gabe

Care to expand on this opinion?

OP: "What are your thoughts on this issue?"
MJ: "These are my opinions."
CD: "YOUR OPINIONS ARE WRONG AND YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED."*

My expansion on this opinion is that people are so quick to judge and give knee-jerk reactions that it creates a very hostile, and scary, environment. So, yes, I completely understand why Mr.Jeff patrolled the CD seas for a dozen years before making a post, and I understand why he probably regrets it now. Not because he was wrong, or wrong in doing so, but because people don't know how to be civil - or at least are unwilling to do so.

Yes, I realize that compared to some Internet forums, chiefdelphi is relatively benign. But that's like saying burglary is better than murder. THEY'RE BOTH CRIMINAL ACTS.**

My personal thoughts? I'm conflicted. I grew up with the voices of George Carlin, Robin Williams, Sam Kinison, Tupac Shakur, Heraclitus shaping my worldview of what language, and truth, is. Yes, I appreciate Mr. am for coming out from behind his public persona*** and Being Real. And yes, I am very glad my 7 and 4 year old sons were not watching the webcast at that time, as they were earlier.

I understand that some may consider my children to be "sheltered" since they haven't heard this language before (to my knowledge) but as a parent, I like to think I can make the decision as to when and how my children can become "un-sheltered" and I don't expect a robotics tournament to be the impetus for that conversation with my kids.

*this is meant to portray a 'conversation' that has three speakers, the OP, MJ, and CD. The words following the colons, in quotation marks, are meant to be what each speaker says, in turn.
**I am not comparing an Internet bulletin board site to criminal acts. I am using an analogy.
***Mr. am has a very carefully crafted public image. Yes, his lyrics can be misogynistic, crude, and vulgar. But look at the man away from the music. Always impeccably dressed. No visible tattoos or piercings (earrings notwithstanding). Very thoughtful in his interviews, speeches, television appearances (like The Voice UK). Just about as clean-cut and well-spoken as you'll find this side of Pat Boone.

[ayeckley]

If you drop F-bombs when you are interviewing with me for an engineering position (entry level, senior - doesn't matter) I am not going to hire you*. My reaction to your profanity will not be "this person is very passionate, and their presence will increase diversity within my organization". My reaction will be "you don't understand even the basics of etiquette and if I put you in front of a customer you will make our company look bad and damage a reputation that has taken decades to establish". True story. Curse like a sailor if you like in your private life, but not if you are giving a public speech to thousands of people from all age groups and backgrounds.

*And before anyone chimes in with "well then I wouldn't want to work for your company", my preemptive response is "oh yes you do".

[dubiousSwain]

I would just like to point out that Will. I. Am even puts robots in his music videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUFsQ5lTo6g
He really likes robotics.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by ayeckley

If you drop F-bombs when you are interviewing with me for an engineering position (entry level, senior - doesn't matter) I am not going to hire you*.

Okay, this post is absolutely ridiculous. Whether or not you are supportive of his expression or profanity use in general, I don't think anyone could possibly argue that an entertainer's appearance at a public event is at all the same social situation as a job interview. Behavior in job interviews, or even at one's professional workplace in general, is very different than behavior in other contexts. I hope you don't believe people behave like they do in job interviews every day of their lives...

[marshall]

Originally Posted by dubiousSwain

I would just like to point out that Will. I. Am even puts robots in his music videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUFsQ5lTo6g
He really likes robotics.

If Fergie showed up to an interview dressed like that I wouldn't hire her.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by ayeckley

If you drop F-bombs when you are interviewing with me for an engineering position (entry level, senior - doesn't matter) I am not going to hire you*. My reaction to your profanity will not be "this person is very passionate, and their presence will increase diversity within my organization". My reaction will be "you don't understand even the basics of etiquette and if I put you in front of a customer you will make our company look bad and damage a reputation that has taken decades to establish". True story. Curse like a sailor if you like in your private life, but not if you are giving a public speech to thousands of people from all age groups and backgrounds.

*And before anyone chimes in with "well then I wouldn't want to work for your company", my preemptive response is "oh yes you do".

I think if you show up to an engineering interview with grease-covered hands, a sweaty robotics team shirt and ripped khaki shorts and old trainers, you probably wouldn't get hired there either.

[mrnoble]

Originally Posted by ayeckley

*And before anyone chimes in with "well then I wouldn't want to work for your company", my preemptive response is "oh yes you do".

Post-emptively, would working for your company mean leaving teaching to become an engineer?

[Ozuru]

Originally Posted by Taylor

OP: What are your thoughts on this issue?
MJ: These are my opinions.
CD: YOUR OPINIONS ARE WRONG AND YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED.

My expansion on this opinion is that people are so quick to judge and give knee-jerk reactions that it creates a very hostile, and scary, environment. So, yes, I completely understand why Mr.Jeff patrolled the CD seas for a dozen years before making a post, and I understand why he probably regrets it now. Not because he was wrong, or wrong in doing so, but because people don't know how to be civil - or at least are unwilling to do so.

Yes, I realize that compared to some Internet forums, chiefdelphi is relatively benign. But that's like saying burglary is better than murder. THEY'RE BOTH CRIMINAL ACTS.

Yeah, no. If you say something controversial on the internet, you're going to get called out for it and told why you're wrong. Are underdog viewpoints now shielded by some sort of political correctness? Comparing a simple discussion of conflicting views with something as extreme as a 'criminal act' is outrageous. At no point was Mr. J told to kill himself or to leave the forum, and I would be highly surprised if he was sent harassing or nasty PMs. All because your opinion isn't the majority doesn't mean you're immune to criticism.

[Tharioth Pillow]

Originally Posted by Chris Hibner

Sorry for quoting you guys in particular but, it's confession time...

I learned to swear (including the F-word) when I was probably about six years old (from the neighbor kid). I had a very vulgar mouth after that, but of course not while adults were around. And yet I turned into a highly responsible adult. I have multiple degrees, own businesses, was an airline pilot, mentor kids, etc. - all despite being exposed to swear words when I was a young kid. I seriously think people get way too uptight about this stuff.

And in another thread there was talk of me being an "old man". BTW, that was back in the early 80's, so I would argue that times haven't changed all that much.

Sorry if you all have lower opinions of me now.

Nah. This thread is purely for discussions, so I'm not planning on walking away with lower opinions of people just because they put out a good argument.

[JeffB]

Originally Posted by grstex

And I know people get passionate about FIRST; I see it every freaking year! And the sponsors really care too! But when it comes time to actually talk about it and get excited on stage, it seems people dial it back. WHY????? You don't have to cuss, but if your company is investing millions of dollars in a program, act out that passion for us!

To some extent, there's a script. It's meant to ensure joint messages are being shared and to prevent unexpected CD 10 page threads about a speech. At productions of this level, things tend to get micromanaged just out of habit.

[JeffB]

Originally Posted by Taylor

OP: What are your thoughts on this issue?
MJ: These are my opinions.


My expansion on this opinion is that people are so quick to judge and give knee-jerk reactions that it creates a very hostile, and scary, environment. So, yes, I completely understand why Mr.Jeff patrolled the CD seas for a dozen years before making a post, and I understand why he probably regrets it now. Not because he was wrong, or wrong in doing so, but because people don't know how to be civil - or at least are unwilling to do so.

I'd argue THIS response is far less civil than other things being said to MJ. Is it only civil to agree with him? There have been a couple I rolled my eyes at (I understand why he hasn't posted or whatever that was as an example). But, they've generally been well articulated counterpoints. To call that uncivil is, well, very uncivilized. You're essentially saying "CD: YOUR OPINIONS ARE WRONG AND YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED." We either agree with his rage or we're wrong and should be ashamed for offering a counterpoint. If we consider the hypocritical nature of this claim, it becomes even less civil.

People aren't going to agree on this topic and that's ok. It hit the edge of what we feel comfortable with in society. Some will be on one side and others on the living dangerously side. It's important both sides keep a level head and be careful to avoid shaming the other for having an opinion.