WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein

[Taylor]

It is possible to provide a counterpoint without attacking the person.

Perhaps in a non-election year we can remember how to do that.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Taylor

OP: What are your thoughts on this issue?
MJ: These are my opinions.
CD: YOUR OPINIONS ARE WRONG AND YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED.

My expansion on this opinion is that people are so quick to judge and give knee-jerk reactions that it creates a very hostile, and scary, environment.

Originally Posted by Taylor

It is possible to provide a counterpoint without attacking the person.

Perhaps in a non-election year we can remember how to do that.

"My expansion on this opinion is that people are so quick to judge and give knee-jerk reactions that it creates a very hostile, and scary, environment."

In your post you mention CD posters being quick to judge...yet you find other people judging a great guy based on one spoken sentence (and probably a lot of other prejudice) to be perfectly fine?

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by Ozuru

Yeah, no. If you say something controversial on the internet, you're going to get called out for it and told why you're wrong.

So being in the vocal majority makes you so "right" in your views, that an (allegedly) minority (allegedly) "controversial" opinion is worthy of being derided into the shadows as positively "wrong"?

Should we be erecting a safe space around this thread? Someone with more experience in such matters, tell me if that's a good idea. Only authorized opinions endorsed by the collective are permitted to be heard. All others must be forced to remain outside the safe zone.

[Ozuru]

Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman

So being in the vocal majority makes you so "right" in your views, that an (allegedly) minority (allegedly) "controversial" opinion is worthy of being derided into the shadows as positively "wrong"?

Should we be erecting a safe space around this thread? Someone with more experience in such matters, tell me if that's a good idea.

Sorry, I wasn't aware that the vernacular of my sentence was going to be nit-picked instead of the general message I was attempting to communicate.

I didn't realize I would have to do this, but here it goes. Like most people who hold opinions, I believe my opinion is correct (a synonym of "right"). Like most people who encounter those who have differing opinions than theirs, I believe that their differing opinion is incorrect. By "controversial", I meant against the apparent hive-mind that CD has. When Mr. J made his post, there were multiple replies stating that will.i.am's comment is being over-reacted to. I'm confident if you sum up the amount of those replies, they're more numerous than the amount of Mr. J-style replies. Hence, "controversial" in context of this thread. Lastly, "wrong" is also relative. Considering the fact that there is no end-all-be-all for opinions, "wrong" was used to illustrate that it is a differing opinion.

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by Ozuru

Sorry, I wasn't aware that the vernacular of my sentence was going to be nit-picked instead of the general message I was attempting to communicate.

I didn't realize I would have to do this, but here it goes. Like most people who hold opinions, I believe my opinion is correct (a synonym of "right"). Like most people who encounter those who have differing opinions than theirs, I believe that their differing opinion is incorrect. By "controversial", I meant against the apparent hive-mind that CD has. When Mr. J made his post, there were multiple replies stating that will.i.am's comment is being over-reacted to. I'm confident if you sum up the amount of those replies, they're more numerous than the amount of Mr. J-style replies. Hence, "controversial" in context of this thread. Lastly, "wrong" is also relative. Considering the fact that there is no end-all-be-all for opinions, "wrong" was used to illustrate that it is a differing opinion.

"Calling someone out" and telling someone they are "wrong" seem like pretty black and white actions to me. Rather confrontational tone (and I know alllllll about those). "Questioning their opinion" and "explaining why you disagree with it" seem much more in line with what you just outlined. Say what ye mean.

And thank you for confirming the existence of the "hive-mind" in these here parts. Many of the busy little bees are seemingly angry at the interlopers and are assiduously working to push these pests out of the idyllic society they have constructed. Why not have them in for tea and cakes first before showing them the door?

[dirtbikerxz]

Originally Posted by ayeckley

If you drop F-bombs when you are interviewing with me for an engineering position (entry level, senior - doesn't matter) I am not going to hire you*. My reaction to your profanity will not be "this person is very passionate, and their presence will increase diversity within my organization". My reaction will be "you don't understand even the basics of etiquette and if I put you in front of a customer you will make our company look bad and damage a reputation that has taken decades to establish". True story. Curse like a sailor if you like in your private life, but not if you are giving a public speech to thousands of people from all age groups and backgrounds.

*And before anyone chimes in with "well then I wouldn't want to work for your company", my preemptive response is "oh yes you do".

Here is the thing though.... Will.I.AM is not applying for a job, working for FIRST, although that would be pretty cool... official original FIRST songs anyone?. He is speaking passionately, in almost a personal level to the audience of the "sport" that he finds most amazing.

And in other regards... when your going to an interview for any decent job like a engineer of some sort, you most likely will wear a suit and tie, or something of that caliber.... but you won't wear that everyday when you are working (in most jobs)... its the same thing with using language such as this, in a appropriate context such as this

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by dirtbikerxz

official original FIRST songs anyone?.

Kinda off topic, but his colab song with The Script, Hall of Fame could be argued to have subtle references

[ayeckley]

Originally Posted by dirtbikerxz

Here is the thing though.... Will.I.AM is not applying for a job, working for FIRST, although that would be pretty cool... official original FIRST songs anyone?. He is speaking passionately, in almost a personal level to the audience of the "sport" that he finds most amazing.

I would argue that unless he had stormed the stage and taken the microphone out of someone else's hands, he was addressing the crowd as a de-facto representative of FIRST. That was the point I was making when I referenced F-bombs in a job interview. Once you become associated with an organization (FIRST, an employer, etc.) it's not really possible to dissociate yourself from that organization at will (no pun intended).

I had a related thought: the use of profanity is prohibited on Chief Delphi (and yes, I verified that statement before I made it). So logically then doesn't the "profanity is no big deal; it's just passion" crowd want to see that policy changed on this forum? If not, then why not?

[dodar]

Originally Posted by ayeckley

I had a related thought: the use of profanity is prohibited on Chief Delphi (and yes, I verified that statement before I made it). So logically then doesn't the "profanity is no big deal; it's just passion" crowd want to see that policy changed on this forum? If not, then why not?

Because this is the internet. How you act on the internet, is entirely different then how you act in person.

[frasnow]

Originally Posted by Carolyn_Grace

Language is cultural.

will.i.am was sharing his culture.

For some of us, his culture is one we share only with close friends. For others, it blends with our work environment (as a teacher at an alternative high school, this is actually the case for me.)

For many people, his culture is completely foreign. It doesn't make these people outdated. It doesn't make them sticks-in-the-mud. It just means they don't appreciate it. That's okay too.

If what he said is something that will impact your team in a positive way, then use it.

If what he said is something that would put a negative light on your team, then don't use it.

It's the age-old debate of trying to prove that your way of [building a robot, organizing a team, drive coaching, finding finances, etc.] is better than others'. It's not.

Give me a break. Swearing is not culture. Anybody can swear. To attribute everything to culture is to allow far worse atrocities. We should hold ourselves to a higher standard.

[Kevin Leonard]

Everyone stop insulting each other personally.

I think we're in agreement for the most part here when in reference to what Will said, despite the relatively harsh discourse taking place.

We'd prefer he didn't use the language he used, because it dilutes the message he's trying to deliver, and it sets a bad example for students in the crowd, especially those of a young age.

However I also think most of us understand that the authenticity of Will's passion for FIRST is something we love, and something that spoke to a lot of students.

Will.i.am can be both a good and bad ambassador for FIRST in the same instance.

[mrnoble]

Please carry on debating the issue of cuss words in general, and the use of them in this specific case. CD is actually plenty tame and I'm glad people can engage each other here without it becoming an all out flame war. I disagree with some of you, and I will act according to my own conscience in this matter. I certainly won't be pursuing anyone I disagree with; Many of you have effective teams with their own cultures, and more power to you if that's the case. I hope you'll all do me the same courtesy as I run my team to the best of my ability, within the context of my school culture. Since (as I've noted before) my principal has been known to cuss in staff meetings and back-to-school presentations, I doubt complaints about my behavior would get very far anyway. Not that I think anyone would ever do that; just being preemptive (following Mr. Ayeckley's model).

If you agree with me about Mr. Am's quote, I want to update you that the t-shirt design is nearly complete and will be printed by the weekend. I will send out the proofs to those who have requested it this evening. There are two versions, one NSFW, and one that is abbreviated. Neither will have any FIRST logos, both will have an image of my team's CAD robot.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by frasnow

Give me a break. Swearing is not culture. Anybody can swear. To attribute everything to culture is to allow far worse atrocities. We should hold ourselves to a higher standard.

Why isn't language you don't like culture, but language you do like is culture? I don't think that's something you can say. The slippery slope argument ("if you say swearing is culture, you can say anything is culture, and that is a lot worse!") is fallacious at best.

Or, more fundamentally, what is wrong with swearing? Fundamentally, the only reason I don't swear in some contexts is to be polite to those who don't like to hear it. I try to avoid swearing around robotics children because they are less likely to have the social wherewithal to avoid swearing in mixed company, and I don't want them imitating my behavior. But I don't honestly see what's actually, morally, wrong with swearing. It's just words.

Unlike other taboos, which disparage marginalized groups and are thus inherently hurtful and perpetuate oppression, curse words just have one (of many) meaning(s) that refer to sexual or excretory acts or functions. Yet, other (non-curse) words we use that have one or more of these meanings are not held to the same standard. I legitimately don't get it. Not getting it doesn't stop me from trying to be nice and not swearing around people who do get it, but I think we need to understand why swearing is so bad in order to condemn this particular case (or any case, really).

[dcarr]

Originally Posted by CalTran

Kinda off topic, but his colab song with The Script, Hall of Fame could be argued to have subtle references

Will.i.am created a version of this track with a few verses re-recorded that specifically mention robots and FIRST. I've heard it played at numerous events.

[Mastonevich]

I'm blown away at how many posts are FOR this. There are better ways to express how awesome FIRST is.