WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein

[mrnoble]

Originally Posted by jee7s

Consider that to be the inclusionary environment we all want FIRST to be, one must be sensitive to all cultures. There are many more than a handful of teams in the various FIRST competitions that are sponsored by religious organizations. Usually these are parochial schools of various sorts. Think of the impact such comments would have on those who read the following from Paul's Letter to the Ephesians and believe it to be the word of God:

What is the message sent to those who take the Bible literally and believe it is a sin to be exposed (or allow innocent people to be exposed) to such language?

Thank you, thank you for making this my new favorite all-time CD thread. By introducing biblical exegesis as a standard for FIRST, you have not only opened the proverbial can of worms but you have also allowed me to speak on the topic in which I am formally trained (in Seminary).

Last week I took a team that included two Muslims, an Orthodox Jew, and a Seventh Day Adventist to CMP. There are numerous ways in which participating in FRC potentially conflicts with their beliefs and practices, including having events on a Saturday (Sabbath), and serving the team cheeseburgers. They and their families make choices and compromises in order to allow them to be part of the team, and we also make some compromises as a team to accommodate them. Still it's their choice to participate or not, knowing who and what we are.

If we want to quote the Apostle Paul, here's one for you:

"For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them. To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some.”
1 Corinthians‬ 9:19-22‬‬‬

Much more importantly, though, FIRST IS NOT A CHRISTIAN ORGANIZATION. Feel free to run your team as you see fit, but if you want Christian Robotics I strongly suggest you look elsewhere.

How do we market the program when people are literally prepared to print t-shirts

That would be me. They're already printing by the way, and my first customer (not really the right word, these are being sold at cost) is a team mother.

[marshall]

Originally Posted by Chief Delphi

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to mrnoble again.

[jee7s]

Originally Posted by mrnoble

Much more importantly, though, FIRST IS NOT A CHRISTIAN ORGANIZATION. Feel free to run your team as you see fit, but if you want Christian Robotics I strongly suggest you look elsewhere.

For the record, I never suggested that FIRST is a Christian Robotics organization nor that it should attempt to be one.

I'm actually not offended by the comment personally. But if we are going to talk about cultures, language, and inclusion, we need to talk about ALL cultures, languages, and inclusion.

[mrnoble]

Originally Posted by jee7s

But if we are going to talk about cultures, language, and inclusion, we need to talk about ALL cultures, languages, and inclusion.

Sure, let's do. Are you allowing females on to your team? If yes, you are offending a significant portion of some cultures. Are you allowing students to work on Saturdays? Again, same issue. Do you happen to believe and teach that science advances humanity, and that we should embrace scientific pursuit? Does this include issues like the age of the earth, or the theory of evolution? How about corporate sponsorships for your team, which might include companies who make weapons or use fracking techniques to get natural gas out of the ground? That offends some folks.

Look, I teach in an urban environment, and the last thing I want to do is put a stumbling block in the way of my students. Cuss words are not a stumbling block here. Maybe they are where your team is. Okay, sorry about that. But FIRST probably wants to reach urban kids, and this was speaking their language. So I'm down with it. Sorry you're not.

[jee7s]

Originally Posted by mrnoble

Sure, let's do. Are you allowing females on to your team? If yes, you are offending a significant portion of some cultures. Are you allowing students to work on Saturdays? Again, same issue. Do you happen to believe and teach that science advances humanity, and that we should embrace scientific pursuit? Does this include issues like the age of the earth, or the theory of evolution?...

Consider what is necessary to reach the population you are alluding to. It's not an easy one to reach. And dropping an f-bomb on your biggest stage is vinegar, not honey.

You'll note from my location tag above that I live in Texas. This is the state where government has mandated that students in pubic schools must be taught both evolution and intelligent design. And then they are tested on both on a state standardized test that they must pass to graduate high school. You appear to feel you have a difficult situation with your team in the environment you teach in. Consider Texas, a state where there are significant poverty and drug problems among a population that has one of the highest number of places of worship per capita in the world.

Look, I teach in an urban environment, and the last thing I want to do is put a stumbling block in the way of my students. Cuss words are not a stumbling block here. Maybe they are where your team is.

They are. On my old team in the northeastern US, I would curse all the time as a mentor and no one really cared. It took all of one occurrence of me saying "hell" for me to be pulled aside and admonished by my teacher counterparts here in Texas. It was unacceptable and inappropriate. With the underserved, poor, and mostly minority population of the school it was essential for the teachers and mentors to be role models from the professional world. To do otherwise was a disservice to the students.

...But FIRST probably wants to reach urban kids, and this was speaking their language. So I'm down with it. Sorry you're not.

QED.

[mrnoble]

Thanks for a thorough response. I agree that it is enormously difficult to reach the particular group you are concerned about with FIRST, really with many things. Like you, I've got ties to places and groups that are very divergent. My brother is an evangelical pastor in the Dallas area, and I worked as a Baptist minister for almost a decade before becoming a teacher. So I get it. Any large organization is going to struggle a lot when dealing with very different community standards.

Originally Posted by jee7s

You appear to feel you have a difficult situation with your team in the environment you teach in.

Not at all, I feel very supported.

[BRAVESaj25bd8]

I have two views on this, which are contradictory to one another.

First, I don't think I would have used Will's words if I was in that situation. I think if I had young children, I would not have wanted them to hear those words. Will's passion spilled over and he cursed because that phrase was the best one he could think of to capture his emotions at the time. Whenever I hear children curse, it is just for the sake of cursing. Until people have the maturity to know the difference, I don't see a need to use profanity.

The other view I have is that while I would not have used Will's words, I don't think I have a right to tell him how to speak. Maybe I do, but why should he listen? He's an adult who understands actions have consequences. He seems to have done a decent job with his life up to this point without me handling his PR.

Finally, for the people talking about "kids in the audience", I see two sides. If you are the parent/guardian of a child who heard this, it's an unfortunate situation. Sorry for the uncomfortable conversation you may need to have with that child. If you are not a parent/guardian, please stop. You are not defending a group who cannot defend themselves, you are just picking a fight.

This conversation is such a train wreck.

[Basel A]

Originally Posted by jee7s

For the record, I never suggested that FIRST is a Christian Robotics organization nor that it should attempt to be one.

I'm actually not offended by the comment personally. But if we are going to talk about cultures, language, and inclusion, we need to talk about ALL cultures, languages, and inclusion.

In general, I'd rather allow all cultures to express themselves than quiet some cultures in order to avoid offending other cultures.

[Andy Grady]

Language is a tricky thing, my friends.

will.i.am is an artist. His job is to incite emotion through his words. He has made an effective career and millions of dollars knowing exactly what the power of the spoken word can do. When he spoke those words at championship, he knew exactly what he was doing...he was trying to incite emotion. He was successful. It was a moment for everyone there, and a good number of people got quite the chuckle out of it given the context of the situation. Of course, some people didn't appreciate it as well.

I don't have a problem with will.i.am saying what he did, in that moment, for the purposes he intended them to have.

Here is where my problem lies...the resonation.

I did not attend championships this year. I did not watch a single second of the webcast. I looked at scores on TBA here and there, but that was it. When all was said and done, I did not see a single quote in my Facebook feed about anything that Woodie said. I did not even know who the WFA winner was, I had to look it up! I saw exactly one post with a link about Dean's homework, that was it. I saw zero quotes from any of the speakers, to which I am sure there had to be someone who said something that meant something to somebody.

I did see will.i.am's comment...a lot. I saw videos, I saw hashtags, I saw memes, and today I am even seeing t-shirts of it.

My question to you is this. If you were trying to sell FIRST to potential sponsors or future teams, would you want to use what has apparently become FIRST's newest catch phrase to woo them to the program?

Ladies and Gentleman, this phrase is the indicator of what the lasting impression of the 25th anniversary championship of FIRST was. Why? Because we live in a world where social media is king, and a message of that magnitude carries like wildfire.

My point is, let the moment be the moment. Let all of those people who were in attendance take it for what it was, an expression meant to elicit emotion. Going forward, however, think hard about the message that YOU want to carry to future generations, sponsors, and media.

Instead of a catch phrase laced with a little profanity, maybe we should be highlighting the success stories of thousands upon thousands of products of FIRST on our t-shirts.

[pmangels17]

Originally Posted by Andy Grady

-snip-

When all was said and done, I did not see a single quote in my Facebook feed about anything that Woodie said. I did not even know who the WFA winner was, I had to look it up! I saw exactly one post with a link about Dean's homework, that was it.

-snip

I think I have an idea why this might be the case. When I first heard Dean and Woodie speak, as a freshman in high school, I was really impressed with what they had to say. I felt empowered, I felt that what I was doing through FIRST could make a difference in my life and the lives others, and I still hold this sentiment to be true today. However, after a few years, it seems like when they speak, they don't say anything that they haven't said before.

Nobody quotes the newest speech by Dean or Woodie because we heard the same words the last time they spoke. This isn't supposed to be a dig at them, it is just a consequence of them speaking at FIRST events for 25+ years. I think the reason that Will.I.Am's words resonate so loudly with the community is that they offer a fresh take from a different perspective, but Will.I.Am and Dean/Woodie are talking about the same thing, a program that they are obviously very passionate about.

Originally Posted by Andy Grady

-snip-

My point is, let the moment be the moment. Let all of those people who were in attendance take it for what it was, an expression meant to elicit emotion. Going forward, however, think hard about the message that YOU want to carry to future generations, sponsors, and media.

Instead of a catch phrase laced with a little profanity, maybe we should be highlighting the success stories of thousands upon thousands of products of FIRST on our t-shirts.

-snip

Andy, you're right, and I haven't heard any recent Woodie or Dean quotes either. This is where I think we can focus our efforts as a community. Woodie and Dean will continue to make great speeches, and that is great. If it's the first or second time you've heard them speak, then you'll be hearing something new. But if we want to keep the stories we tell fresh, new, and exciting (something somebody will quote on Facebook, for example), then we need to make a concerted effort to find new perspectives on FIRST from all members of our community. We need to hear personal stories of inspiration, triumph, and even sometimes failure. And we need to hear it from everyone; Dean, Woodie, Frank, students, mentors, parents, volunteers, spectators, and everyone who has been involved in or exposed to FIRST.

Some of the best stories I've heard about FIRST are ones where a parent was moved to tears when she saw her typically-introverted son dancing with all the mascots at competition, being outgoing and more expressive than she had ever seen, or when a student who had no academic drive decides that a STEM career might be for them (And there are many more). We all have heard great stories about how FIRST has changed lives, and we all have our own to share.

If we want to continue to spread the message of FIRST, then we need to continue to seek out and highlight the countless wonderful stories and moments that FIRST makes happen, and Will.I.Am's visceral, candid, and passionate comment on Einstein is just one of these fantastic, inspiring moments.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Andy Grady

I did not attend championships this year. I did not watch a single second of the webcast. I looked at scores on TBA here and there, but that was it. When all was said and done, I did not see a single quote in my Facebook feed about anything that Woodie said. I did not even know who the WFA winner was, I had to look it up! I saw exactly one post with a link about Dean's homework, that was it. I saw zero quotes from any of the speakers, to which I am sure there had to be someone who said something that meant something to somebody.

I did see will.i.am's comment...a lot. I saw videos, I saw hashtags, I saw memes, and today I am even seeing t-shirts of it.

My question to you is this. If you were trying to sell FIRST to potential sponsors or future teams, would you want to use what has apparently become FIRST's newest catch phrase to woo them to the program?.

Dean is the most boring public speaker on the planet. That's the sad reality. He starts talking and thousands of people immediately and instinctively tune out. His message might be good, but if nobody is awake to hear it, did it happen?

I can't even remember if Woodie talked, but he at least has some charisma. As someone else mentioned above, the message rarely changes though. Plus those speeches came at the tail end of a very long and exhausting day. Many (most?) people had already left, given that Einstein was over.

Of course you're not going to take Will.i.am's statements to a prospective sponsor and be like "Yo, did you know TSIMFD?". This situation you've constructed is a total straw man. Anyone with half a brain knows that context and audience are important and isn't going to present that quote.

On the other hand, if the students can go to their non robotics friends and classmates and tell them that will.i.am thought what they do is so cool that he dropped a F bomb in front of 20,000 people, maybe those people will start to think robots are cool too.

[crake]

I might be overruled, but "TSIMFD Robotics" might just be the name of our FLL Jr team next year.

[Andy Grady]

Originally Posted by Cory

On the other hand, if the students can go to their non robotics friends and classmates and tell them that will.i.am thought what they do is so cool that he dropped a F bomb in front of 20,000 people, maybe those people will start to think robots are cool too.

If will.i.am dropping an F-Bomb in front of 20,000 students is what will make people think that robotics are cool, we are doing something seriously wrong here.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Andy Grady

If will.i.am dropping an F-Bomb in front of 20,000 students is what will make people think that robotics are cool, we are doing something seriously wrong here.

I don't think we are doing anything wrong, Cory is being realistic. If FIRST wants to appeal to everyone, FIRST needs to be more down to earth and realistic about relating to their audience. Also, can people please stop referring to mother$@#$@#$@#$@#in as the f-bomb? It was in such a unique context, it really isn't the same as many of you are implying.

[techhelpbb]

As a CSA I've heard more F-bombs in those pits, and have quietly asked people to reconsider their language, at moments than I can count and -LONG- before now.

The only reason this seems to have this sort of visibility is because Will.I.AM did it where everyone could hear it.

So people shouldn't throw stones in glass houses. Will is not setting a trend that didn't have legs already. If he had set a new word into the language none of you would likely have even realized it because a new profane or obscene word wouldn't be recognizable without an explanation. NARF!

That doesn't mean you can't object to it, but again, FIRST should never be judged so myopically.