Dear FIRST HQ, Let's talk about the playoff pits.

[jijiglobe]

Originally Posted by adam the great

While I was in that middle section this year with our pit team, numerous volunteers came by and told teams "Just so you all know, only drive teams and media can go out to the fields for matches. Anyone else with pit crew buttons is not to go watch the match." Of course everyone back there scoffed at the idea that a team member dedicated enough to be on the pit crew would not be able to watch their team compete during their most important and final matches. On Curie we collectively seemed to just take the stance of: Robot goes out, Teammates come out; and everyone would just huddle into the media box out of the way of anyone's view of the field and surprisingly they didn't bug any of us that I saw. I was curious how this was working on the other fields, and while I understand not wanting the field to have tons of spectators on the floor in the way. Wouldn't having the simple rule of: You can only be out there when your team is out there be sufficient enough? Cause making it so pit crew can't watch their hard work pay-off is just simply not the solution. (And yes a screen for each field behind the curtain would probably be simple enough of a solution to appease nearly everyone)

This is interesting to hear because we had a completely different experience on Curie. Our pit crew was allowed onto the field to watch matches, so long as they did not help the drive team with any sort of field setup.

[wilsonmw04]

sounds like an inconsistency that needs to be addressed.

[frcguy]

Originally Posted by jijiglobe

This is interesting to hear because we had a completely different experience on Curie. Our pit crew was allowed onto the field to watch matches, so long as they did not help the drive team with any sort of field setup.

Yep, we had the same experience on Curie. Our alliances entire pit crew, including the safety captains and 4th drive team were allowed to go and stand in the media box to watch.

[synth3tk]

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04

sounds like an inconsistency that needs to be addressed.

The real heart of the problems with Championship in terms of rules/policies.

[Alex Cormier]

While we being #1 seed, our pit was placed on the outside and against the wall next to the field. I felt as if it was a huge safety factor. Not only were we being yelled at constantly to get every robot, person, part within the small area, if we so much took one foot out of the box we got in trouble. How come we push so much for safety, yet when it matters the most we throw it to the wayside? I was told too bad, you guys have too much stuff in your area, get back in there.

It's the biggest stage, the final showdown and all. How do you not expect teams to bring anything they think they need and obviously their tool boxes as well? You have 4 robots, 4 sets of 6-9 people, 4 teams worth of tools and spares and you cram them all into one space?

There's only so much time between matches to get prepared and ready for the next one. How can we safely test the robot and prepare for matches when it is very crammed? At times, I had to stop working/prep on my robot so the others could run their tests safely. This is ridiculous.

Thankfully, when it came time to Einstein, our area grew tremendously.

I really hope FIRST looks at this thread and gets it addressed properly. It was unacceptable.

[Chris is me]

I also want to point out that it is a small, but unfair, advantage to give the #1-3 seeds pits that can view every match, but not the 4-8 seeds. These seeds can have their drive team or pit crew members scout future matches, while that is not allowed for other seeds.

[jijiglobe]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

I also want to point out that it is a small, but unfair, advantage to give the #1-3 seeds pits that can view every match, but not the 4-8 seeds. These seeds can have their drive team or pit crew members scout future matches, while that is not allowed for other seeds.

Being able to scout matches during eliminations is a huge deal. While most teams have enough members to effectively scout matches from the stands, if your team is too small to do that, it's a huge disadvantage.

Not sure how big of an issue this is because 4 teams can probably muster up enough people to scout matches.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by jijiglobe

Being able to scout matches during eliminations is a huge deal. While most teams have enough members to effectively scout matches from the stands, if your team is too small to do that, it's a huge disadvantage.

Not sure how big of an issue this is because 4 teams can probably muster up enough people to scout matches.

There's also a big difference between a driver being able to watch the match of a team they have to defend, versus a scout watching that match and relaying that information via a phone call or a text message.

GUS had about 8 kids total at the Championship; this would have been a huge problem for us if we advanced past the quarters.

[JeffB]

If it helps any, I was constantly told by volunteers I couldn't be near the matches even after I pointed to the neon orange hat and explained what my job was.

I don't think it's about trying to keep you from enjoying the last bit of your season. It sounds like the volunteers are given a very quick explanation of what the red line means and try to enforce that rule without a real understanding of everything that takes place.

[Pauline Tasci]

When your team is in Einstein finals, they should let your entire team down there.
A team is more than 4 drive team members and 3 pit crew members.
FIRST should really bring the whole team down to experience the win or loss as a team, because that's what that match represents. A whole team's efforts over 4 months.

[wilsonmw04]

Originally Posted by paunatime

When your team is in Einstein finals, they should let your entire team down there.
A team is more than 4 drive team members and 3 pit crew members.
FIRST should really bring the whole team down to experience the win or loss as a team, because that's what that match represents. A whole team's efforts over 4 months.

There just isn't enough room.

[Pauline Tasci]

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04

There just isn't enough room.

The teams who lost Einstein in Quarters and Semis are now there just to watch the finals matches, they can stand to the side or go back to the Einstein stands. It's way more important for the team that is in Finals to be there.
Personally I gave my badge after losing to quarters to another alliance who made it to Semi's. They deserved to be on the field way more than myself.

Or even have the teams in the VIP section that was 100% empty during the finals.

There is room its a matter of making the necessary adjustments.

[jnicho15]

Tesla also had no problem with Pit Crew watching matches. We stood/sat in the defense staging? area near the wall. As long as we were on or behind the hazard tape, they were happy.

[Gary Dillard]

As a volunteer working crowd control on Archimedes during the division playoffs, here's how I understood our directions through most of the playoffs (sorry the details are a little fuzzy). First let me note that when things first started there seemed to be multiple "directions" regarding teams, media, others, etc. that were often conflicting, so our head queuer got in a chat session with the other lead queuers (I think he said on Facebook that they had set up) to see what other divisions were doing and make sure that all fields were being consistent. I don't recall the initial guidelines he provided, but shortly after that the guidelines changed again based on input from someone higher up the chain (either someone from FIRST or maybe Jess, I don't recall that either) and they were the same for the remainder of the division playoffs on our field. I was next to the field, so I don't know how this was disseminated to the queuers working behind the curtain.
If you had a team media badge, you were allowed in the media area (the front of the field by the stands, taped off and offset from center) while your team was on the field, plus anyone with a FIRST media badge, so that was only about 8 people to check on. That gave us room to get the robots on and off the field safely and quickly. From about 3 feet behind the media line back to the stands and extending the length of the field was the taped off area where anyone who's team was on the field was allowed to watch, plus invited guests and judges who were generally allowed to stand toward the front of the viewing area behind the media. I would make a couple of passes checking badges before each match started, and that was about it.

[maxnz]

I can also see another problem where something breaks and you need to fix it between matches. If the pit crew can watch, they can be prepared to work immediately when the robot gets back to the pit, because they (probably) know what to fix. Otherwise you're wasting time when the driver/drive team has to explain what went wrong to the pit crew so they know what to fix.