WILL.I.AM's comment on Einstein

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by frasnow

Give me a break. Swearing is not culture. Anybody can swear. To attribute everything to culture is to allow far worse atrocities. We should hold ourselves to a higher standard.

The phrase under scrutiny is not swearing. It is not cursing. It is definitely vulgar, and could legitimately be considered obscene, but in the vernacular of linguistics it is emphatic rather than invective. The "f-bomb" label is not applicable to every use of the "f-word", and I do not believe it applies here.

The use of those words in their emphatic sense is certainly a cultural thing.

[Basel A]

Originally Posted by jee7s

For the record, I never suggested that FIRST is a Christian Robotics organization nor that it should attempt to be one.

I'm actually not offended by the comment personally. But if we are going to talk about cultures, language, and inclusion, we need to talk about ALL cultures, languages, and inclusion.

In general, I'd rather allow all cultures to express themselves than quiet some cultures in order to avoid offending other cultures.

[Andy Grady]

Language is a tricky thing, my friends.

will.i.am is an artist. His job is to incite emotion through his words. He has made an effective career and millions of dollars knowing exactly what the power of the spoken word can do. When he spoke those words at championship, he knew exactly what he was doing...he was trying to incite emotion. He was successful. It was a moment for everyone there, and a good number of people got quite the chuckle out of it given the context of the situation. Of course, some people didn't appreciate it as well.

I don't have a problem with will.i.am saying what he did, in that moment, for the purposes he intended them to have.

Here is where my problem lies...the resonation.

I did not attend championships this year. I did not watch a single second of the webcast. I looked at scores on TBA here and there, but that was it. When all was said and done, I did not see a single quote in my Facebook feed about anything that Woodie said. I did not even know who the WFA winner was, I had to look it up! I saw exactly one post with a link about Dean's homework, that was it. I saw zero quotes from any of the speakers, to which I am sure there had to be someone who said something that meant something to somebody.

I did see will.i.am's comment...a lot. I saw videos, I saw hashtags, I saw memes, and today I am even seeing t-shirts of it.

My question to you is this. If you were trying to sell FIRST to potential sponsors or future teams, would you want to use what has apparently become FIRST's newest catch phrase to woo them to the program?

Ladies and Gentleman, this phrase is the indicator of what the lasting impression of the 25th anniversary championship of FIRST was. Why? Because we live in a world where social media is king, and a message of that magnitude carries like wildfire.

My point is, let the moment be the moment. Let all of those people who were in attendance take it for what it was, an expression meant to elicit emotion. Going forward, however, think hard about the message that YOU want to carry to future generations, sponsors, and media.

Instead of a catch phrase laced with a little profanity, maybe we should be highlighting the success stories of thousands upon thousands of products of FIRST on our t-shirts.

[pmangels17]

Originally Posted by Andy Grady

-snip-

When all was said and done, I did not see a single quote in my Facebook feed about anything that Woodie said. I did not even know who the WFA winner was, I had to look it up! I saw exactly one post with a link about Dean's homework, that was it.

-snip

I think I have an idea why this might be the case. When I first heard Dean and Woodie speak, as a freshman in high school, I was really impressed with what they had to say. I felt empowered, I felt that what I was doing through FIRST could make a difference in my life and the lives others, and I still hold this sentiment to be true today. However, after a few years, it seems like when they speak, they don't say anything that they haven't said before.

Nobody quotes the newest speech by Dean or Woodie because we heard the same words the last time they spoke. This isn't supposed to be a dig at them, it is just a consequence of them speaking at FIRST events for 25+ years. I think the reason that Will.I.Am's words resonate so loudly with the community is that they offer a fresh take from a different perspective, but Will.I.Am and Dean/Woodie are talking about the same thing, a program that they are obviously very passionate about.

Originally Posted by Andy Grady

-snip-

My point is, let the moment be the moment. Let all of those people who were in attendance take it for what it was, an expression meant to elicit emotion. Going forward, however, think hard about the message that YOU want to carry to future generations, sponsors, and media.

Instead of a catch phrase laced with a little profanity, maybe we should be highlighting the success stories of thousands upon thousands of products of FIRST on our t-shirts.

-snip

Andy, you're right, and I haven't heard any recent Woodie or Dean quotes either. This is where I think we can focus our efforts as a community. Woodie and Dean will continue to make great speeches, and that is great. If it's the first or second time you've heard them speak, then you'll be hearing something new. But if we want to keep the stories we tell fresh, new, and exciting (something somebody will quote on Facebook, for example), then we need to make a concerted effort to find new perspectives on FIRST from all members of our community. We need to hear personal stories of inspiration, triumph, and even sometimes failure. And we need to hear it from everyone; Dean, Woodie, Frank, students, mentors, parents, volunteers, spectators, and everyone who has been involved in or exposed to FIRST.

Some of the best stories I've heard about FIRST are ones where a parent was moved to tears when she saw her typically-introverted son dancing with all the mascots at competition, being outgoing and more expressive than she had ever seen, or when a student who had no academic drive decides that a STEM career might be for them (And there are many more). We all have heard great stories about how FIRST has changed lives, and we all have our own to share.

If we want to continue to spread the message of FIRST, then we need to continue to seek out and highlight the countless wonderful stories and moments that FIRST makes happen, and Will.I.Am's visceral, candid, and passionate comment on Einstein is just one of these fantastic, inspiring moments.

[frasnow]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

The phrase under scrutiny is not swearing. It is not cursing. It is definitely vulgar, and could legitimately be considered obscene, but in the vernacular of linguistics it is emphatic rather than invective. The "f-bomb" label is not applicable to every use of the "f-word", and I do not believe it applies here.

The use of those words in their emphatic sense is certainly a cultural thing.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=swearing
Swearing - the use of offensive language.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profanity
Types of Swearing:
Abusive swearing
Cathartic swearing
Dysphemistic swearing
Emphatic swearing
Idiomatic swearing

Many people clearly find his language offensive. I doubt most parents or teachers would agree 'The "f-bomb" label is not applicable to every use of the "f-word".'

[Pretzel]

Originally Posted by frasnow

Many people clearly find his language offensive. I doubt most parents or teachers would agree 'The "f-bomb" label is not applicable to every use of the "f-word".'

I think the argument that was made is that applying this label in all situations is incorrect, not that it is common for people to use critical thinking skills to judge whether or not it is an "f-bomb" versus just a use of the "f-word".

As an example of using this critical thinking, in my AP Language class in high school I was asked to read and analyze George S. Patton's speech to the Third Army. If you haven't read it, it include many words that would be considered obscene in a majority of contexts. If you take it for what it is though, which is a speech to soldiers on the day before D-Day, the swearing becomes less of an affront and more of a tool for emphasis. It's hard to communicate the same passion through a toned-down phrase when you consider the original version of "We're going to murder those lousy Hun *censored* by the bushel-*censored*-basket." (that sentence actually takes the cake for the most colorful sentence I've ever included in an academic paper)

Likewise it becomes difficult for someone in the position of will-i-am to make a statement that carries the same weight if he toned it down to, "This stuff is dope" or, "I find this very interesting". His passion for what the teams are doing carries over into the phrasing that he chose, and that he very likely chose very carefully beforehand for maximum effect.

Some people may view it as inappropriate in an event that is billed as family friendly, but the honest truth is that I can guarantee every high school student in that building has heard far worse than that every day of their high school career. They've heard those same words, directed at others with intent to hurt and wound. They've heard every racial slur in the book, along with euphemisms for every possible sexual orientation, used to attack and demean their classmates. This is not one of those cases. will-i-am is not using these words in a negative connotation. Quite the opposite is true, because he is actually using them to provide emphasis for the high regard in which he hold the program.

Perhaps it wasn't the best venue for his statement (because there are many younger children I'm sure who attend these matches), but it isn't anything hateful or aggressive that should be reacted to in a negative manner. Those young children will grow up and hear those words used every day as soon as they reach middle school, and they'll learn that there are appropriate uses of swearing (to provide emphasis to a passionate positive statement) and inappropriate uses of swearing (to provide emphasis to a negative statement or to attack/demean/belittle others). I'm confident that when they reach an age of maturity they will be able to look back upon will-i-am's statement and realize that it is an example of an appropriate use of swearing that came at a possibly less-than-ideal time.

To me the bottom line is this: If you compare will-i-am's use of "This *censored* is mother*censored* dope" to the daily usage of and exposure to those same words that a vast majority of high school students experience on a daily basis, it's downright tame. He's not attacking anyone. He's not belittling or demeaning others. He's complimenting something he is passionate for in a sincere manner, in that he isn't trying to carefully phrase it to avoid offending people who cannot look beyond the words to find the meaning.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Andy Grady

I did not attend championships this year. I did not watch a single second of the webcast. I looked at scores on TBA here and there, but that was it. When all was said and done, I did not see a single quote in my Facebook feed about anything that Woodie said. I did not even know who the WFA winner was, I had to look it up! I saw exactly one post with a link about Dean's homework, that was it. I saw zero quotes from any of the speakers, to which I am sure there had to be someone who said something that meant something to somebody.

I did see will.i.am's comment...a lot. I saw videos, I saw hashtags, I saw memes, and today I am even seeing t-shirts of it.

My question to you is this. If you were trying to sell FIRST to potential sponsors or future teams, would you want to use what has apparently become FIRST's newest catch phrase to woo them to the program?.

Dean is the most boring public speaker on the planet. That's the sad reality. He starts talking and thousands of people immediately and instinctively tune out. His message might be good, but if nobody is awake to hear it, did it happen?

I can't even remember if Woodie talked, but he at least has some charisma. As someone else mentioned above, the message rarely changes though. Plus those speeches came at the tail end of a very long and exhausting day. Many (most?) people had already left, given that Einstein was over.

Of course you're not going to take Will.i.am's statements to a prospective sponsor and be like "Yo, did you know TSIMFD?". This situation you've constructed is a total straw man. Anyone with half a brain knows that context and audience are important and isn't going to present that quote.

On the other hand, if the students can go to their non robotics friends and classmates and tell them that will.i.am thought what they do is so cool that he dropped a F bomb in front of 20,000 people, maybe those people will start to think robots are cool too.

[crake]

I might be overruled, but "TSIMFD Robotics" might just be the name of our FLL Jr team next year.

[Andy Grady]

Originally Posted by Cory

On the other hand, if the students can go to their non robotics friends and classmates and tell them that will.i.am thought what they do is so cool that he dropped a F bomb in front of 20,000 people, maybe those people will start to think robots are cool too.

If will.i.am dropping an F-Bomb in front of 20,000 students is what will make people think that robotics are cool, we are doing something seriously wrong here.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Andy Grady

If will.i.am dropping an F-Bomb in front of 20,000 students is what will make people think that robotics are cool, we are doing something seriously wrong here.

I don't think we are doing anything wrong, Cory is being realistic. If FIRST wants to appeal to everyone, FIRST needs to be more down to earth and realistic about relating to their audience. Also, can people please stop referring to mother$@#$@#$@#$@#in as the f-bomb? It was in such a unique context, it really isn't the same as many of you are implying.

[techhelpbb]

As a CSA I've heard more F-bombs in those pits, and have quietly asked people to reconsider their language, at moments than I can count and -LONG- before now.

The only reason this seems to have this sort of visibility is because Will.I.AM did it where everyone could hear it.

So people shouldn't throw stones in glass houses. Will is not setting a trend that didn't have legs already. If he had set a new word into the language none of you would likely have even realized it because a new profane or obscene word wouldn't be recognizable without an explanation. NARF!

That doesn't mean you can't object to it, but again, FIRST should never be judged so myopically.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Andy Grady

If will.i.am dropping an F-Bomb in front of 20,000 students is what will make people think that robotics are cool, we are doing something seriously wrong here.

You're free to act high and mighty and look down your nose at everyone who disagrees with you, but the reality is that kids loved that moment. It was a genuine expression of passion by someone in pop culture, which is easier to relate to than some old guys standing on stage talking in platitudes.

You can't want people from "outside the tent" to come join the FIRST family and then get pissed when they think TSIMFD...

[Pretzel]

Originally Posted by Andy Grady

If will.i.am dropping an F-Bomb in front of 20,000 students is what will make people think that robotics are cool, we are doing something seriously wrong here.

That's fine that it doesn't appeal to you, because you aren't the target audience (no offense). The target audience is high school students who often times use language like that every day, and would otherwise be discouraged from joining robotics by the seemingly rigid formality of it all. I think it does an excellent job of getting those people engaged without offending more than a very small minority of the current population, and likely then not enough to get them to leave FIRST entirely.

[Chris Hibner]

Ugh - further evidence that I'm becoming an old fart. People talking about Andy Grady (who was a student when I started in FIRST) like he's an old man, must make me ancient. Man, it feels like I was a veteran young guy just a few years ago.

Wait a minute, is it okay for me to say fart?

[wireties]

I understand that the comment was made in a unique moment and addressing a particular audience. Personally I do not think it was strictly necessary but NBD. One can reach students of any age without such language.

I have another query. Nobody says father-#$%^&(. Will.I.Am's modifier to the f-bomb could be interpreted as demeaning to women. Do any female students/teachers/sponsors feel that way?

Will was also careful to say "Palestine" and not "Israel". Should we start another thread?

TIA