FRC rules around seating need to change.

[Rangel(kf7fdb)]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

Not all teams scout, unfortunately.
Some teams want room for 8 people, some only need/can spare 2 or 3.
There should be some neutral way to handle negative behavior at all aspects of a competition. Sports events allow attendees to notify event personnel of uncivil behavior.

The solution to getting the seats you want together as a team is pretty simple. Show up early and show up together. You don't have to beat 148 to the venue to get great seats together as a team, but you have to decide whether or not it's worth it.

I honestly don't think just coming super early is a final good solution to the problem. This was a similar problem at another robotics competition we compete in called Robosub. Granted people were coming early for first signups on the practice field in this competition but it was getting ridiculous where people were coming hours before the doors opened up. It's really not healthy to cut even like 2 hours a day during the entire course of the competition but teams will still do it to remain competitive. This competition solved it by having a lottery of slots based on which teams were there when doors opened. I think having 8-9 dedicated seats per team for scouting would go a long way in solving this issue.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb)

I honestly don't think just coming super early is a final good solution to the problem. This was a similar problem at another robotics competition we compete in called Robosub. Granted people were coming early for first signups on the practice field in this competition but it was getting ridiculous where people were coming hours before the doors opened up. It's really not healthy to cut even like 2 hours a day during the entire course of the competition but teams will still do it to remain competitive. This competition solved it by having a lottery of slots based on which teams were there when doors opened. I think having 8-9 dedicated seats per team for scouting would go a long way in solving this issue.

:/ Maybe I'm just crazy but I don't see how it is that crazy to show up an hour early to get the seats you want. Maybe you do something like 10 blocks of 20 seats that can be lotto'd off as long as your whole team count you requested +/-5 shows up when the doors open? I don't see why you should punish teams that sacrifice for good seats, but FRC is about to reach a point where the organization might have to step in and save people from themselves (ie hour limits on meetings in and out of build season, time to show up to a venue, etc)

[BrennanB]

Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb)

I honestly don't think just coming super early is a final good solution to the problem.

Or when you show up earlier than another team and they run/superspeed walk to get better seats than you.

[dcarr]

One factor that doesn't help this problem in St. Louis is that the entire 300-level of seats in the dome is off-limits to teams, leaving many good seats empty while teams resort to the 400 and 500 levels. It's not clear why this is the case - I would think that reserving a few sections for VIPs and making the rest available would be fine.

[Montavo]

Originally Posted by BrennanB

Or when you show up earlier than another team and they run/superspeed walk to get better seats than you.

Almost relatable

[gblake]

The title says the seating rules need to change. I don't think that is right. The existing rule needs to be enforced. Changed rules that aren't enforced will be as useless as the current rule.

People need to stop being squeamish about identifying the rule-beakers. The situation needs more "sunshine", not a code of silence.

[hrench]

Originally Posted by gblake

The existing rule needs to be enforced. Changed rules that aren't enforced will be as useless as the current rule.

People need to stop being squeamish about identifying the rule-beakers. The situation needs more "sunshine", not a code of silence.

So we have a simple rule that isn't enforced. I appreciate Sperkowsky's ingenuity of thinking up a new plan, but I don't think a more complicated rule will do any better.

I encourage you to call-out the offender. They have people reading CD. It will get back to them and they won't do it next time.

I've volunteered 'crowd control' at the Greater KC regional where we normally don't have enough seats and it's routine for the announcer to occasionally remind of the 'no saving seats' policy.

[Sperkowsky]

Originally Posted by hrench

I encourage you to call-out the offender. They have people reading CD. It will get back to them and they won't do it next time.

The thing is. The team whom I had a specific issue with was actually a very well respected team. Probably had one of the top 10 robots in the world this year. The other thing is that is was an issue mostly between a few parents and a single team member. I do plan on contacting a mentor on the team though.

[OccamzRazor]

It is simple really yet people seem to still insist on acting foolish.

We had our entire team trying to find a few seats together and the newer students who did not know any better were respecting the wishes of other teams that wanted to save seats even though they are not allowed to do so. After I watched my team finally end up in the 400 section and people were still trying to save seats up there I had them all sit down wherever there was space because at that point we were in the nosebleeds and it was getting ridiculous for Einstein.

There were mentors from other teams and parents yelling about us sitting in 30 empty seats but lets face it....the short side of the stadium is not large enough for this behavior. Even if you need to sit in the middle of a team saving seats, do it and explain to them that they are simply not allowed to save sections, the stadium is too small on the short side for all these teams to fit, and that being aggressive and confrontational can cost their team awards as well as the respect of the FRC community.

OP I am sorry you had that experience but one person defying a crowd never ends well. I hope you contact their mentor and have a discussion about the event since everyone is wearing a convenient name tag. You were in the right but unfortunately people are tired, short tempered, and not their best at the end of a long week.

Once most of the teams are out of the running they seem to devolve into tired and angry people that throw GP out of the window once they have nothing to lose. This is a culture that should change.

[TheDoctor_1]

A suggestion:
7 or 8 additional pins are included in the packet, marked "Scouting Team". These pins allow the person access to "Scouting Row" which would be a designated area in the front of the stands. This area would be set off and patrolled by a few of the security personnel. It would be more of an exclusive area than the rest of the seating, akin to the robot queue.

[s_forbes]

For what it's worth, I've never had an issue sitting inside of another team's "reserved" seating to watch a few matches. Most teams want to be able to have their members sit together during eliminations, and some mark off where they intend to sit. If you ask to sit in their empty seats during qualification matches, they almost never object. The vast majority of people in the stands are pretty reasonable.

I'm fairly confident that you will have better seats by communicating with other teams in the stands than by having FIRST sanction off a section where you are required to sit.

[Pauline Tasci]

The problem with the current process is that to get good seats you have to push your way right when pits/stands open and have a lot of people moving back and forth from pits and stands.

In LA a LONG time ago we assigned seating sections everyday, everyone had an allocated number and it would change everyday to ensure people had good seating at least once. I think this option could work with a separate area reserved for scouts.

But really, we just have to enforce the rule that exists now.

[IndySam]

Originally Posted by s_forbes

For what it's worth, I've never had an issue sitting inside of another team's "reserved" seating to watch a few matches. Most teams want to be able to have their members sit together during eliminations, and some mark off where they intend to sit. If you ask to sit in their empty seats during qualification matches, they almost never object. The vast majority of people in the stands are pretty reasonable.

I'm fairly confident that you will have better seats by communicating with other teams in the stands than by having FIRST sanction off a section where you are required to sit.

I have had HOF teams deny me seating in their area.

[jimbo493]

Regional and district events won't change, there is too much variability in seating, from individual seats to bleachers. However at CMP they should assign seating. At NOAC, which is a large event in the Boy Scouts Order of the Arrow, we were all given a name badge like at CMP, and on the bottom it had each of the 4 shows, and an assigned seat, they didn't strictly enforce it, but each group was sitting in the same area, once you got there you could move around within your group. There were 4 shows, so two shows you had lower bowl seats, and 2 shows you had upper bowl seats. Then you could have sections book off for visitors and VIPs assorted around the dome, by every field. This way there would be no argument about "saving seats". And then you could assign a block of scouting seats, and you would have to specify your number of seats you need-max 8 for scouting.

Just my 2 cents