FRC rules around seating need to change.

[XaulZan11]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

... If you need your six scouts to have six seats, why don't they just sit together at the beginning of the day? Where do they have to be other than in the stands scouting? Hold your seats like everyone else who follows the rules does.

Yeah, I don't get the argument of "we need to save seats because scouting is important". If you're scouting every match (which I assume you are since scouting is a key to being successful), then there shouldn't be any need to save seats.

Is the argument really "We need to save seats for our pit crew and other members so when they can sit with the team when they come to the stands. These need to be good seats because our team values scouting"?

[GreyingJay]

Originally Posted by XaulZan11

Is the argument really "We need to save seats for our pit crew and other members so when they can sit with the team when they come to the stands. These need to be good seats because our team values scouting"?

It seems that way.

Q: Our scouts need seats together.
A: Make sure they all arrive at the venue at the same time before the doors open.

Q: Yeah, but we need good ones.
A: Then arrive earlier.

Q: What about all the other students on the team that are coming?
A: They can arrive earlier too.

Q: And the team parents?
A: Yup, same.

Q: What about all the students who are in the pit?
A: Look, what's so hard about this?

[IronicDeadBird]

I wonder if you could just implement a backpack rule, where if you want to save a seat the seat needs to be occupied by a backpack, purse, or satchel. Not a coat, not a blanket, something that would be considered a carry on for a plane.
One bag one seat.
If you want to game the system and bring 40 extra backpacks to a competition to secure an area go ahead and bring 40 extra backpacks to secure an area. I'd actually pay to see a team force all students to carry 2 or 3 bags into the stands just to secure seats.
Actually I'm only even suggesting it because I DO want to see that scenario roll out.
Either way the best seats in the house should be saved for guests, and those with special needs. I also find it silly to think that we need to give scouts so much room when we could just share more of the scouting information we collect. Instead of having 3-4 people from every team at an event gathering the exact same data (how many high goals were made, how many low goals, did they climb) if people just shared the information we would free up a lot of seats. A cross team electronic scouting database would dissolve a lot of threads about "how do we share information at a venue without wireless" it would promote better relationships between teams, it would save paper that is turned into airplanes.
People need to realize that people that aren't on their team aren't the enemy. If you have a stranger with no team affiliation sit down with your team and you help explain the game to them and show them how things go guess who they will most likely cheer for? YOU!
Another rule that annoys me has to do with noise makers. I know you want to cheer for your team and make some noise, but my parents didn't come to an event to have their ears blown out by your stupid horns.
Its hilarious that teams will invest money into cameras and tri-pods to have a better view at the driver station, yet somehow the only way we scouts can get the information they need is if they "have a good seat".

TLR
For a group that takes pride in being GP

There is nothing gracious about these passive aggressive behaviors at competition
There is nothing professional about only living by some of the rules in the manual

[Larry Lewis]

There is nothing wrong with the current rule. It is very straight forward and clear. You cannot save seats. That being said the responsibly of enforcement should fall on the team leaders (students and adults) to make sure their team is not saving seats.

If you really want to sit in a certain section or as a group, then get their early and make sure you have enough people sitting in the stands to establish your seating area. This does not mean putting down objects to hold seats or not allowing others to sit in those seats. It means getting there early enough to get the seats you want (without running and pushing over people to get them) and allowing others that need seats to sit. The best and only way to save a seat is to be sitting in it.
This is really not hard to do.

Here are some real world examples of what your team can do to fix the problem, keeping in mind we have about 60 people in our group at competition.

Train your team:
This goes for students and adults but make sure they are aware of the rule and stress to them the importance of following it. Make sure they understand that family members of other teams, VIPs, or general public could be checking out this event and have the right to sit in our area. In fact encourage it and talk to them about the game. There is never any good reason to get into an argument or fight over a seat.

How to have your team sit together:
Make sure to enter the venue as a group and stick together. Then migrate to an area big enough to hold your team. In the arena there are plenty of areas for this. Now if this means you are not getting seats closer to the field then get their earlier. There is no reason to run or push to get the seats you want. It is disrespectful and totally against what FIRST is about.

What about having an area for scouting:
Determine where you would like scouters to sit within your group. Generally we try to put them in the back of our group since we can control better people standing and blocking them within our own group. We also do shifts so that their seats are never really vacant. If one needs to run off to do something quick someone is there to take over.

How do you keep your seats when people need to eat or walk around the event?
If you want to retain the general area you are sitting in then don’t send everyone off to eat or do something at once. If you do so you should be ok with surrendering your seats to others. Otherwise do shifts so that not everyone is gone at once. To manage this we come up with a team schedule. Which is also useful for keeping track of where everyone is during the day.

If someone does want to sit within your group let them. Odds are that it is usually no more than 5 people and they may only be there for short duration of time. So really not a big deal. Worst case scenario if the stands are full in your area, have your team members find somewhere else to sit temporarily until people filter out of your area. Again, not a big deal.

Really out of all of this the most important thing is training your team on the rules and setting the expectation that they should be respectful of others at competition. I don’t think putting more workload on FIRST or volunteers to police the stands is the answer. Teams should take on the responsibility for their actions during competition. Our lead teacher sums it up nicely by saying, “Be nice to everyone!”

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by GreyingJay

It seems that way.

Q: Our scouts need seats together.
A: Make sure they all arrive at the venue at the same time before the doors open.

Q: Yeah, but we need good ones.
A: Then arrive earlier.

Q: What about all the other students on the team that are coming?
A: They can arrive earlier too.

Q: And the team parents?
A: Yup, same.

Q: What about all the students who are in the pit?
A: Look, what's so hard about this?

So we should continue to force teams to arrive at 5 am on competition mornings, thus depriving students of up to 2 hours of sleep, so that they can get seating under your proposal? Is maintaining the current seating rule so important that we should undermine the health of our students? (And saying that they just shouldn't get up so early is a cop out--address the reality of the situation.)

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by XaulZan11

Yeah, I don't get the argument of "we need to save seats because scouting is important". If you're scouting every match (which I assume you are since scouting is a key to being successful), then there shouldn't be any need to save seats.

We largely do that already. Much of the issue is that scouts actually need breaks and will leave. We've had people than come sit in those empty seats and assert ownership. In addition, certain scouts often have multiple roles at the beginning of the day and putting their butt in a seat isn't the highest priority among those activities.

[apache8080]

Originally Posted by Citrus Dad

We largely do that already. Much of the issue is that scouts actually need breaks and will leave. We've had people than come sit in those empty seats and assert ownership. In addition, certain scouts often have multiple roles at the beginning of the day and putting their butt in a seat isn't the highest priority among those activities.

FIRST should dedicate seats for scouting for each team. They can give 10 seats to each team for scouting and those seats are marked as reserved for that team. In addition, these seats can be placed at the "50 yard line" of the FRC field for optimal scouting. If reserving seats is not feasible for an event, FIRST should have required cameras that stream matches at optimal angles for scouting and this stream shold be standard across all events. When FIRST made a public API it helped get a lot of raw data for scouting but they need to continue to support scouting at events by improving seating and streams.