Workshop/Tools/Parts

[techplex]

Originally Posted by asid61

Stock up on things like aluminum stock tubing, preferably versatubes for the ease-of-use, and hex shaft.

I want to echo this. Buying aluminum from the hardware store is very expensive. It is much less expensive to buy in larger quantities online.

We buy from OnlineMetals.

Consider buying:
1"x1" angle
2"x2" angle
1"x2" tube
1"x1" tube

Depending on the game sometimes you need stronger the .125" thick and sometimes you need light weight .060" thick. We buy a mixture.

[asid61]

Originally Posted by Techwiz

I want to echo this. Buying aluminum from the hardware store is very expensive. It is much less expensive to buy in larger quantities online.

We buy from OnlineMetals.

Consider buying:
1"x1" angle
2"x2" angle
1"x2" tube
1"x1" tube

Depending on the game sometimes you need stronger the .125" thick and sometimes you need light weight .060" thick. We buy a mixture.

I recommend against Online Metals; even with the occasional 25% off coupons it costs more than places like Speedy Metals, and local places are far cheaper than either because you don't have to pay exorbitant shipping costs.
We go to Alan Steel locally, and a few others go to Coast Aluminum.

[alexusaywla]

Originally Posted by GreyingJay

^^ And RSL's are extremely expensive to buy new for some reason.

I definitely recommend the second, or even third, RoboRio and control system. Depends on how your team is set up, of course, but we had many subteams vying for time on the robot(s): the drive team, the autonomous team, the controls software team, the vision processing team, and of course fab/electrical wanted to keep working on stuff.

To the OP, have you thought about your longer term strategy for how your team is going to run? It's great that you found some money and there's a long list of things you could spend it on, but to spend it wisely you should have a plan for what your program is going to look like over the next few years. An obvious question, for example, is where you work out of, how much room there is, how much storage space you have. You obviously shouldn't buy a mill if you don't have a place to put it.

When my team started we decided pretty early on that we would always try to build a practice robot in addition to our competition robot. Knowing this helped us set our fundraising/sponsorship targets, and guided us to purchase our first RoboRio control system early in the fall. This helped because we could then start teaching students how to use it, knowing that a complete second system was coming in the rookie KOP. And of course they are now both in use in two identical robots.

This season we actually worked out of our school's computer lab. We built makeshift walls and occupied about 1/3 of the room but we managed to make it work for us. Our school (Young Women's Leadership Academy) is extremely small with about 150 high school students. Thus, our team consisted of 10 members this season. The good news is our storage room on campus will be our new home in a few weeks. A storage room might sound small but it's about the size of 3 classrooms.

We plan on hosting workshops and encouraging our younger students to participate in FLL events next year. We would like the workshops to be a way to encourage other students to join our team as well as teach students about FIRST and the control system. Team 457 allowed us to use their KoP from last season to teach us before going into our first build season and that definitely helped us. We went ahead and ordered a second control system to teach new students about it and we have decided on building a practice bot alongside our competition bot next season.

We're currently working on more forms of outreach and hope to gain more mentors and sponsorship soon!

[yerko42]

Here is a massive list from Mcmaster carr I put together for a rookie team in the area. It is based off the infrastructure team 5059 already uses. There are quite a few things on here that i would much prefer to source from a cheaper source but are essentially place holders at the moment. Maybe someone will find it useful...

I'm struggling to find a good solution to a metal cutting band saw. Anyone have any thoughts on a good all around saw? we've used a 10in miter box with an aluminum blade but it's blown a few pieces out and generally seems sketchy. Maybe one of those portable band saws with a table attachment? is the small throat an issue?

Also not shown are:
-PWM (servo) cable, male/female servo ends and crimpers from readymaderc.com
-Plywood and 2x4's
-sheet rock screws

you can probably import this into excel... or if your really interested i can send you the spreadsheet with hyperlinks and cheaper sources...

Any input appreciated.

Line Quantity Product Unit Price Total Price

1 1 Each 6659A23 Heavy Duty Blind Rivet Tool Kit with 200 Rivets, Packed in a Plastic Box $43.93 $43.93

2 2 Packs 97447A025 Aluminum Blind Rivet with Aluminum Mandrel Domed, 1/8" Dia, .188"-.25" Material Thickness, Packs of 250 $7.76 $15.52

3 1 Pack 97447A145 Aluminum Blind Rivet with Aluminum Mandrel Domed, 1/8" Dia, .501"-.625" Material Thickness, Packs of 250 $10.07 $10.07

4 1 Pack 97447A055 Aluminum Blind Rivet with Aluminum Mandrel Domed, 3/16" Dia, .251"-.375" Material Thickness, Packs of 100 $6.52 $6.52

5 1 Each 5874A7 Forged Steel Nail Hammer with Hickory Handle Straight Claw, 16oz Head Wt, 13" L O'all, Painted Head $8.95 $8.95

6 1 Each 3417A6 Center-Marking Punch with Hex Handle 1/16" Point Diameter, 4" Long $4.00 $4.00

7 1 Each 39755A85 Bosch Jigsaw Model NO. JS470E $166.44 $166.44

8 2 Packs 4131A38 T-Shank Jigsaw Blade for Mtl, Fast-Cut Lg-Life, 11-14 Teeth Per Inch, Packs of 5 $11.50 $23.00

9 2 Packs 4131A71 T-Shank Jigsaw Blade for Mtl, Fast-Cut Lg-Life, 17-24 Teeth Per Inch, Packs of 5 $11.52 $23.04

10 2 Each 4077A1 Light Duty Hacksaw 10" Blade Length $13.90 $27.80

11 2 Packs 6927A18 Fast-Cut Lg-Life Hacksaw Blade, Packs of 5 $8.65 $17.30

12 1 Each 5256A1 Rotating Multijaw Bench Vise with Swivel Base 5-1/8" Pipe Jaw Width $225.69 $225.69

13 10 Each 7122A46 Hex L-Key 5/32" Sz, 4-7/16" O'all Lg. $0.34 $3.40

14 10 Each 7122A22 Hex L-Key 3/16" Sz, 3" O'all Lg. $0.29 $2.90

15 1 Each 37095A35 Ball-End T-Hndl Key Cushion-Grip, 5/32" Sz $3.54 $3.54

16 1 Each 37095A36 Ball-End T-Hndl Key Cushion-Grip, 3/16" Sz $3.63 $3.63

17 1 Each 2007A9 Combination Square Blade & SQ Head W/Level and Scriber, 12" SS Blade $11.13 $11.13

18 2 Each 2157A11 Scriber for Hardened STL and SS Straight Fixed Tip, Includes Pocket Clip $6.74 $13.48

19 1 Each 4253A16 Fixed Lg. Hvy Dty Deburring Tool w/ 5 Blades $11.43 $11.43

20 2 Each 2522A759 General Purpose Tap for Starting Thrds, 10-32 Thrd Sz $4.96 $9.92

21 1 Each 25605A63 Economy Tap Wrench for SQ Shank Sz 0.110" to 0.191", W/T-Hndl $5.95 $5.95

22 1 Each 1413K42 Tap Magic Cutting/Tapping/Threading Lubricant for Aluminum, 4-oz. Squeeze Bottle $3.57 $3.57

23 3 Each 3163A54 Double End HSS Drill Bit for Sheet Metal 1/8", 1-15/16" Overall Length, 9/16" Drill Depth $1.91 $5.73

24 3 Each 3163A75 Double End HSS Drill Bit for Sheet Metal 1/4", 2-5/8" Overall Length, 3/4" Drill Depth $3.71 $11.13

25 2 Each 2901A194 Black-Oxide HSS Jobbers' Drill Bit Wire GA 21, 3-1/4" Oal, 1.9" Drill Depth, 135Deg Point $1.84 $3.68

26 2 Each 2901A178 Black-Oxide HSS Jobbers' Drill Bit Wire GA 7, 3-5/8" Oal, 2.13" Drill Depth, 135 Deg Point $2.38 $4.76

27 1 Each 8875A14 Uncoated HSS Jobbers' Drill Set 15 Pcs, 1/16" to 1/2" X 32Nds, 118 Deg Bit Point $64.58 $64.58

28 1 Each 5386A8 Black Adjustable Wrench Standard, Plain Handle, 4" L, 1/2" Jaw Capacity $14.48 $14.48

29 1 Each 5386A2 Black Adjustable Wrench Standard, Plain Handle, 6" L, 15/16" Jaw Capacity $16.05 $16.05

30 1 Each 5386A3 Black Adjustable Wrench Standard, Plain Handle, 8" L, 1-1/8" Jaw Capacity $16.98 $16.98

31 2 Each 27875A51 Makita Cordless Tool Drill/Driver, 18 V, 1/2", 0-600/0-1900 NO Load rpm $186.25 $372.50

32 2 Each 54515A57 3/8" Nutdriver Bit, 1/4" Hex Shank $2.94 $5.88

33 2 Each 54515A55 5/16" Nutdriver Bit, 1/4" Hex Shank $2.25 $4.50

34 5 Each 83445A42 Slip-Rst Phillips Bit 1/4" Hex Shank for Power Tools, NO. 2 Sz, 2" O'all Lg. $1.89 $9.45

35 1 Each 4600A1 Hvy Dty Bench Grinder W/Wire Brush for 6" Whl Dia $393.55 $393.55

36 1 Each 9801T2 Mini-Tank Wet/Dry Vacuum 1 Gallon Plastic Tank, with 1-1/4" Dia Accessories $45.83 $45.83

37 1 Each 32605K44 Economy Heat Gun Selectable-Temp, 750 & 1000 Deg F, 1200 W $31.69 $31.69

38 1 Each 7123K1 Terminal Assortment Vinyl-Insulated, 490 Pieces $133.65 $133.65

39 1 Each 69555K62 Ratchet Crimper Standard, for 22-10 AWG Insulated Terminals $61.45 $61.45

40 2 Each 7294K14 Plier-Nose Wire Stripper for 24-14 AWG Solid/26-16 AWG Stranded $14.28 $28.56

41 1 Each 7872A91 Lead-Free Wire Solder for Electronics with Rosin Flux, 0.031" Diameter, 3/8 oz $6.55 $6.55

42 1 Each 7734A18 Variable-Temperature Soldering Station Analog $141.18 $141.18

43 3 Each 68025A55 10 ft./3 M Lg. High-Visibility Lufkin Tape Measure $7.20 $21.60

44 1 Each 5369A46 Vise-Grip Locking Plier 3-Piece Set, 10", 6-1/2" & 5" Sizes $29.74 $29.74

45 3 Pairs 53545T27 Cut-Resistant Kevlar Glove with Nitrile Palm Coating, Cut Level 2, Small $7.68 $23.04

46 5 Pairs 53545T27 Cut-Resistant Kevlar Glove with Nitrile Palm Coating, Cut Level 2, Medium $7.68 $38.40

47 5 Pairs 53545T27 Cut-Resistant Kevlar Glove with Nitrile Palm Coating, Cut Level 2, Large $7.68 $38.40

48 3 Pairs 53545T27 Cut-Resistant Kevlar Glove with Nitrile Palm Coating, Cut Level 2, X-Large $7.68 $23.04

49 2 Packs 54725T34 Roll Up Flared Bullet Earplugs W/Cord, Packs of 100 Pairs $31.80 $63.60

50 15 Each 54185T602 Economy Panoramic Safety Glasses W/Blue Polycarbonate Frame $2.32 $34.80

51 10 Each 62065T32 Eyeglass-Fit Visitors' Safety Glasses $2.73 $27.30

52 1 Each 5797A32 Economy 5-Piece All Purpose Pliers Set Cushion-Grip Handles, Packed in a Vinyl Pouch $40.73 $40.73

53 1 Pack 1661T11 Firm-Tip Ink Marker Fine Tip, Black, Packs of 12 $13.73 $13.73

54 4 Each 5133A18 Compact Iron C-Clamp 6" Max - 0 min Opening, 1200# Holding Capacity $13.29 $53.16

55 1 Each 5720A84 Cushion-Grip Screwdriver 6-PC Slotted and Phillips Set $24.96 $24.96

56 2 Each 52985A14 Precise-Control Screwdriver 0.118" Slotted, 5-3/4" O'all Lg. $4.06 $8.12

57 1 Each 4093A81 Hole Saw for Sheet Metal Kit with 7 Saws, 5/16" to 3/4" Diameters $79.67 $79.67

58 1 Each 4344A15 Kit, Dremel 4000-2/30 Electric Straight Light Dty Grinder for Bits and Burs $119.47 $119.47

59 1 Each 7351T14 Dust Brush with Plastic Bristles Gray, 8" L Brush, 2-1/2" L Bristle, 13-1/4" L O'all $6.45 $6.45

60 1 Each 7250T13 Economy Plastic Dust Pan 12-1/4" W X 8-1/4" D X 2-5/8" H, Black $6.23 $6.23

61 1 Each 4625A12 Heavy Duty Belt Sander 4" Wide $651.72 $651.72

62 4 Packs 95615A120 Zinc-Plated Grade 5 STL Nylon-Insert Locknut 1/4"-20 Thread Size, 7/16" Wide, 5/16" High, Packs of 100 $4.22 $16.88

63 4 Packs 90631A411 Low-Strength Steel Nylon-Insert Locknut Zinc-Plated, 10-32 Thread Size, 3/8" Wd, 15/64" Ht, Packs of 100 $3.21 $12.84

64 1 Pack 91251A537 Black-Oxide Alloy Steel Socket Head Cap Screw 1/4"-20 Thread, 1/2" Length, Packs of 100 $10.45 $10.45

65 1 Pack 91251A542 Black-Oxide Alloy Steel Socket Head Cap Screw 1/4"-20 Thread, 1" Length, Packs of 50 $7.84 $7.84

66 1 Pack 90044A123 Black-Oxide Alloy Steel Socket Head Cap Screw 1/4"-20 Thread, 1-1/2" Long, Fully Threaded, Packs of 50 $10.89 $10.89

67 3 Packs 90044A125 Black-Oxide Alloy Steel Socket Head Cap Screw 1/4"-20 Thread, 2" Long, Fully Threaded, Packs of 25 $6.85 $20.55

68 3 Packs 90044A127 Black-Oxide Alloy Steel Socket Head Cap Screw 1/4"-20 Thread, 2-1/2" Long, Fully Threaded, Packs of 25 $9.07 $27.21

69 1 Pack 91251A342 Black-Oxide Alloy Steel Socket Head Cap Screw 10-32 Thread, 1/2" Length, Packs of 100 $9.25 $9.25

70 1 Pack 91251A345 Black-Oxide Alloy Steel Socket Head Cap Screw 10-32 Thread, 3/4" Length, Packs of 100 $10.28 $10.28

71 2 Packs 91251A347 Black-Oxide Alloy Steel Socket Head Cap Screw 10-32 Thread, 1" Length, Packs of 50 $8.10 $16.20

72 3 Packs 90044A118 Black-Oxide Alloy Steel Socket Head Cap Screw 10-32 Thread, 1-1/2" Long, Fully Threaded, Packs of 25 $6.82 $20.46

73 4 Each 5163A14 Ratcheting Combination Wrench 3/8" Size, 6-11/16" O'all Length, Full Polish Chrm $18.96 $75.84

74 4 Each 5163A15 Ratcheting Combination Wrench 7/16" Size, 7-1/4" O'all Length, Full Polish Chrm $19.94 $79.76

75 4 Packs 92141A011 Type 18-8 Stainless Steel Flat Washer Number 10 Screw Size, 0.203" ID, 0.438" OD, Packs of 100 $2.33 $9.32

76 4 Packs 92141A029 Type 18-8 Stainless Steel Flat Washer 1/4" Screw Size, 0.281" ID, 0.625" OD, Packs of 100 $3.37 $13.48

77 1 Each 7893A21 Soldering Flux for Electronics NO Clean Pen, 0.3 oz $8.19 $8.19

78 2 Each 2521A571 General Purpose Tap for Starting Thrds, 1/4"-20 Thrd Sz $5.35 $10.70

79 2 Each 6334K41 Multi-Color Heat-Shrink Tubing Assortment 133-Piece $75.54 $151.08

80 1 Each 4996A52 Economy Electronic Caliper 0-6" (0-150mm) Range, 1-1/2" Jaw Depth $89.28 $89.28

81 1 Each 2742A515 Countersink for Aluminum, Brass, and Bronze 3-Flute, 120 Deg Angle, 3/4" Body Dia, 1/2" Shank Dia $29.79 $29.79

82 1 Each 28015A51 General Purpose 10" 5-Speed Bench Drill Press 620-3100 rpm, 115 VAC $213.82 $213.82

83 1 Each 3902A4 Sheet Metal Cutter 10" O'all Lg. $19.83 $19.83

[lorykzarr]

You're definitely on the right track trying to find a cheaper place then McMaster. I would recommend a few things:

- Make sure the soldering iron you get has a stand or you get a stand for it
- The tin snips won't be much help cutting 1/8" sheet. They're designed for much thinner stuff
- You'll probably chew through those 1/8" drill bits really quickly if you ever drill out steel rivets. If you end up getting steel ones, stock up on drill bits.

Also, do you have a tool box/chest to store everything? If not, look into getting one so you can keep all of your stuff reasonably organized. And as far as the bandsaw, try looking for a used one. You might be able to get one for way less then new.

[asid61]

Originally Posted by lorykzarr

You're definitely on the right track trying to find a cheaper place then McMaster. I would recommend a few things:

- Make sure the soldering iron you get has a stand or you get a stand for it
- The tin snips won't be much help cutting 1/8" sheet. They're designed for much thinner stuff
- You'll probably chew through those 1/8" drill bits really quickly if you ever drill out steel rivets. If you end up getting steel ones, stock up on drill bits.

Also, do you have a tool box/chest to store everything? If not, look into getting one so you can keep all of your stuff reasonably organized. And as far as the bandsaw, try looking for a used one. You might be able to get one for way less then new.

Adding onto the rivet thing, I highly recommend just using all-aluminum rivets. They are far easier to drill out than steel, and in the event that a rivet is set badly (the mandrel breaks well above the head) it's still easy to remove. With steel rivets in that situation, you are basically screwed.

[lorykzarr]

Originally Posted by asid61

Adding onto the rivet thing, I highly recommend just using all-aluminum rivets. They are far easier to drill out than steel, and in the event that a rivet is set badly (the mandrel breaks well above the head) it's still easy to remove. With steel rivets in that situation, you are basically screwed.

After having to remove a bunch of steel rivets this year with cheap-o 1/8 bits, I think we'll be moving over to aluminum. Thanks for the tip.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by asid61

Adding onto the rivet thing, I highly recommend just using all-aluminum rivets. They are far easier to drill out than steel, and in the event that a rivet is set badly (the mandrel breaks well above the head) it's still easy to remove. With steel rivets in that situation, you are basically screwed.

Aluminum rivets with steel mandrels are just as easy to remove, but install more reliably and are a smidge stronger. If you have the choice I'd get these.

[asid61]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

Aluminum rivets with steel mandrels are just as easy to remove, but install more reliably and are a smidge stronger. If you have the choice I'd get these.

We used some of those this year and had issues removing them, both 3/16" and 1/8". Especially because some of our riveters are a little old/use swivel heads, they have trouble setting 3/16" aluminum w/ steel mandrel rivets.
We set some 3/16" rivets of this type on our original cheval de frise mechanism this year and when it came time to remove them, the portion of the mandrel still left in the rivet stopped use from being able to drill through, and we had to make a new part after having to drill a massive hole to fix the situation. Aluminum rivets are far safer IMO especially because more often I've had to deal with steel problem than with rivet shear problems. If I really need the extra strength I'll use screws.

[TheModMaster8]

The most important things to have in order of value
1. Bandsaw
2. X-Carve® ( can cut aluminum, BUT you need to get the correct formulas
before doing it, this was designed for wood but it can cut metal so don't treat
it as a metal cnc mill)
3. Mill or jig bore
4. drill press
5. chop saw with metal blade
6. belt/disk sander are nice but files work the same.
7. CNC plasma cutter (this is the one machine i have not used so that's why it's at the bottom, and i would highly suggest getting another view on it)

After you have got the more cost friendly machines, i would suggest this \/\/
if you have around $7000-8000 dollars the next year. I would totally invest in a Tormach PCNC 770 Series 3 or PCNC 1100. You can go look at NYCNC on youtube, he's a machinist that uses this machine and shows you how to use it. it's worth taking a look at https://www.youtube.com/user/saunixcomp

[asid61]

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8

The most important things to have in order of value
1. Bandsaw
2. X-Carve® ( can cut aluminum, BUT you need to get the correct formulas
before doing it, this was designed for wood but it can cut metal so don't treat
it as a metal cnc mill)
3. Mill or jig bore
4. drill press
5. chop saw with metal blade
6. belt/disk sander are nice but files work the same.
7. CNC plasma cutter (this is the one machine i have not used so that's why it's at the bottom, and i would highly suggest getting another view on it)

After you have got the more cost friendly machines, i would suggest this \/\/
if you have around $7000-8000 dollars the next year. I would totally invest in a Tormach PCNC 770 Series 3 or PCNC 1100. You can go look at NYCNC on youtube, he's a machinist that uses this machine and shows you how to use it. it's worth taking a look at https://www.youtube.com/user/saunixcomp

Why would you recommend getting a mill and CNC router before a drill press?

[roboruler]

Originally Posted by alexusaywla

Hi, my team has $5000 to spend on parts, tools, and machinery for next season so what should we purchase?

I think most people have overlooked, the fact that this $5000 budget isn't just for tools but it is also for parts.

It sounds like this year you mainly used parts from the KOP, going forward you might like to look at some of the COT’s offerings available from ANDYMARK and VEXpro. There are plenty of parts that can be used nearly every season and some which are a bit more specialised.

If your looking for things like gearboxes to operate robot mechanisms, the Versa-planetary range from VEXpro is good. Unlike other planetary gearboxes on the FRC COTs market they are completely customisable allowing a huge range of reduction options. They can also utilise a large range of motors allowing you access to the most powerful motors allowed in FRC. They are of higher quality, and there are a number of different output shafts available although ½ hex is probably best for what you are doing.

http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/mo...planetary.html

The purchase of a set Versa-planetaries, and motors like bag’s and 775pros will be a good investment and something that you’ll be able to use for many seasons providing you take good care of them. Buy a few base-kits and various reduction stages in the off-season and you’ll be able to have a bit of practise assembling them and perhaps use them in an off-season project.

I would put aside at least $1500 for robot part related purchases during next season.

[Lireal]

I would just like to say that the automatic wire stripper we got this year was the best $10 we spent all season(at least for the electrical team ). It is just a small thing, but it made wiring the robot so much easier.

[yerko42]

Originally Posted by lorykzarr

You're definitely on the right track trying to find a cheaper place then McMaster. I would recommend a few things:

- Make sure the soldering iron you get has a stand or you get a stand for it
- The tin snips won't be much help cutting 1/8" sheet. They're designed for much thinner stuff
- You'll probably chew through those 1/8" drill bits really quickly if you ever drill out steel rivets. If you end up getting steel ones, stock up on drill bits.

Also, do you have a tool box/chest to store everything? If not, look into getting one so you can keep all of your stuff reasonably organized. And as far as the bandsaw, try looking for a used one. You might be able to get one for way less then new.

-I recommended the Hakko FX888D Soldering Station from spark fun though i haven't used it. Any thoughts?

-As far as the snips we plan on raiding the remnant section of our local metal supply store. ~1.59/lb is MUCH cheaper than the cost of new sheet, its actually a 80 mile drive for us to our metal supply store and it is worth it! We can fairly consistently find decent sheet there thin enough to cut yet thick enough to use as gusseting I usually compare it to the thickness of a credit card. we also pick up thicker stuff (about 0.1") that we cut with the jig saw. the thin stuff works really fast but can leave an ugly burr an easy solution is to just wrap the sharp edge with adhesive back neoprene Mcmaster carr # 8694K78 .

-As far as the Drill bits, we've had them through two build seasons and have yet to break one (or even burn one). The advantage is that they are short so it reduces the risk of blowing through the back side of a hole and into something that can bend and snap the bit. It helps we run all aluminum rivets, i don't like the steel because it can make the hole walk.

-pick up a few scrap lengths of aluminum about 3/8 in dia 15-36" in lenght. if you need a super long drill bit just place the desired drill bit size in a vise and put the Al rod into the drill and drill it as straight as you can onto the drill bit. (this keeps the hole parallel on the rod, centered will be up to you) then take the drill bit out of the vise and superglue it into the hole on the rod. Viola long drill bit in any size you need...

-for storage I've found that roll around tool boxes can have a fairly high $/usable storage volume so I prefer Harbor Freights 8 bin plastic cases ( Item#93927). They are cheap, reasonably durable and the bins can be partially or completely removed to store larger items/tools. plus bins can be separated into lighter quantities so you don't end up rolling a 300lb monster into the pits. Also I prefer bins and shelves over tool boxes because it is scale-able. you may have barely one box of hardware your first year but soon enough you'll have several boxes of 1/4-20 and 10-32.

-As a side note I avoid taking hardware out of their original packaging, you never know who may be trying to re-order and being able to look at the part number on the box saves everyone a lot of time.

- Also I totally agree with roboruler and wish I would have known about Versa-planetary gear boxes a long time ago. One thing to consider if you are with a school is; getting vendors added to your schools purchasing system and getting Open PO's (PO is Purchase Order basically an agreement to buy/do business between two companies) in place before build season starts for key vendors i.e. andymark, Vex, Mcmaster. Especially during build season by the time you get a quote, turn it into a requisition and have the school purchasing dept approve and send the PO to the vendor you may find your item is long out of stock. Open PO's basically allow you to spend up to a specific amount and can be fulfilled much faster. Get your stuff in 1 week rather than 3 or not at all

[yerko42]

Has anyone used the Harbor freight 14in 4 speed band saw?

http://www.harborfreight.com/14-in-4...saw-60564.html

-The lowest blade speed is 568fpm which seems reasonable, though I think lower would be better... would it?
-93.5 blade so it should be pretty easy to get blades.

Does anyone know of a comparable 120V 14" saw that runs slow enough to cut metal that isn't unreasonably huge or $1800?

Or am i getting to hung up on blade speed? should I just get a small woodcutting saw and toss a metal blade on it and assume it is ok? I feel like I'm missing something and that there should be a better market for a benchtop metal cutting band saw.

Also can anyone specifically recommend an economical drill press? My team bought one off of grainger and right out of the box it had some disgusting run out, so bad that we hardly use it. I think we would have gotten the same or better at HFT.