Workshop/Tools/Parts

[sanddrag]

Originally Posted by yerko42

Has anyone used the Harbor freight 14in 4 speed band saw?

http://www.harborfreight.com/14-in-4...saw-60564.html

-The lowest blade speed is 568fpm which seems reasonable, though I think lower would be better... would it?
-93.5 blade so it should be pretty easy to get blades.

Does anyone know of a comparable 120V 14" saw that runs slow enough to cut metal that isn't unreasonably huge or $1800?

Or am i getting to hung up on blade speed? should I just get a small woodcutting saw and toss a metal blade on it and assume it is ok? I feel like I'm missing something and that there should be a better market for a benchtop metal cutting band saw.

Also can anyone specifically recommend an economical drill press? My team bought one off of grainger and right out of the box it had some disgusting run out, so bad that we hardly use it. I think we would have gotten the same or better at HFT.

A lot of the 14" bandsaws are more or less the same, but a few have some notable differences. The step pulleys for multiple speeds on the Harbor Freight unit you linked are rather unique. I've looked at the saw in the store several times, and it doesn't seem like a bad saw at all.

For cutting aluminum, a somewhat high blade speed with the right blade is actually preferred. We cut aluminum on a wood-cutting bandsaw all the time. We've owned the Grizzly G0555X for about a year now and it has served us very well. It's powerful and smooth running. In fact, I don't think we've ever even broken a blade on it. Some of the unique features here are a pretty large 1.5HP motor and full ball-bearing blade support (6 bearings) and the nice fence, the heavy base cabinet, and worklight.

At home, I have a Delta 14" 3/4 HP with the sheet metal base stand. It's probably the most popular model of 14" bandsaw of all time, and there's a lot of aftermarket support for it through vendors like Rockler. It's not a bad saw at all. I like the blade guide adjustments on it and the quick release blade tension lever, but the 3/4" HP motor can be a little weak at times and the rigidity of the base could be better. The newer offering from Lowes is this Porter Cable which I've looked at in the store, and seems pretty decent.

The big thing with all bandsaws is you really want to look at how all the components relating to adjustment of any sort are made. Blade guides, blade tension, blade tracking, and the table trunnions. Differences in these areas are where certain saws outperform or outlive the others.

If you want to cut steel, you will need a much slower bandsaw, and the 568FPM of the Harbor Freight saw is likely still far too fast. When you want to cut steel, it becomes a whole different type of saw you need.

On blades, stick with Lenox, Morse, or Starret bi-metal blades. It makes a big difference on any saw.

On drill presses, we've owned the older DP1500 model of this Ridgid one from home depot for the last 15 years and it has served us very well. But, I can stall it on bigger drills and hole saws.

Lowes has a Porter Cable that looks pretty decent for the price, and I like the keyed chuck better.

Students really seem to like variable speed drill presses, since none of them realize how easy it is to change belt speeds (lazy bums :-) ).

One thing to look at on drill presses is the area where the column attaches to the base. On many drill presses I've seen and owned, this area does not have enough material, and it can flex.

For large drills, hole saws, and countersinks, on both of those listed above, the minimum speed of 300 RPM is still a little fast. For that reason, the next drill press I buy might be the Grizzly G0779.

Finally, the Harbor Freight 20" 12-speed drill presses at least on paper seem to offer a lot more than the Lowes and Home Depot offerings, for not a lot more money, especially if you use one of their always-available 20% coupons to buy it. And it goes as slow as 180 RPM, which is important, especially if you ever plan to work in steel.

One last thing you want to look at is how drill presses handle the depth stop. Some do it in different ways, and not all of the ways to do it are real great. It's an important feature not to be overlooked.

As with any machinery purchase, they say to buy the biggest that you can afford and can fit in the shop (and through your doorway), because there will always be a bigger job that will make you wish you had bought the bigger machine.

[Jay H 237]

I see this hasn't been brought up or mentioned but I want to throw it out there.

Is your team or have you considered being incorporated as a 501(c)3 tax exempt organization (team!)? Yes, there are requirements and steps have to be followed but 237 has been one since shortly after it was formed. This has enabled us to get donations of equipment, including Bridgeports, one right from where I work when they upgraded to Prototraks 11 years ago. A donation to the team and a tax write off for the company. Even was able to get a local autobody shop to donate 1.5 hours of their time and a rollback to move it.

It's just something to consider that can help in the long run.

[TheModMaster8]

Originally Posted by asid61

Why would you recommend getting a mill and CNC router before a drill press?

when it comes down to it. you can use a hand drill. Out of all the 5 years iI have built robots, I've only used a drill press a handful of times (less then 20). I prefer a mill over drill press as it's far more accurate it may take longer but the end results are far better, and if it needed to be quick, I used a hand drill, once you get good at it, their isn't that much of a need for it IMO.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8

when it comes down to it. you can use a hand drill. Out of all the 5 years iI have built robots, I've only used a drill press a handful of times (less then 20). I prefer a mill over drill press as it's far more accurate it may take longer but the end results are far better, and if it needed to be quick, I used a hand drill, once you get good at it, their isn't that much of a need for it IMO.

OK, now here's a question...

You have limited budget for tools, and nobody knows how to use a mill.

Does the mill still come before the drill press?



(Hint: the answer isn't "yes". BTW, my team is still working on getting a mill up and running--we've got 4 drill presses, and they see heavy use.)

A drill press is useful for drilling lots of holes, and most particularly for precision thru-holes. Can a mill do that, sure (and I'll concede that it can probably do some aspects better). But if you ain't got the budget for a mill and all its tooling, get a drill press, a couple of punches, and a really good pair of calipers. Oh, and a vise for the drill press, if you've got anything left over. Should be a lot cheaper, and do the hole-drilling job just find. Don't try milling with it, though.

[ctt956]

Originally Posted by yerko42

Here is a massive list from Mcmaster carr I put together for a rookie team in the area.

I'm struggling to find a good solution to a metal cutting band saw. Anyone have any thoughts on a good all around saw? we've used a 10in miter box with an aluminum blade but it's blown a few pieces out and generally seems sketchy. Maybe one of those portable band saws with a table attachment? is the small throat an issue?

Very extensive list! As for the band saws, I've used a Delta vertical band saw for cutting metal. Not sure of the model, but it performed well, though it currently has some issue where it's not reaching the set speed, and can be stalled with anything. I've also used this Harbor Freight saw, which can be vertical or horizontal. It's good for cutting metal, and will go through thick 80/20 fairly quickly. While I didn't use it myself, I saw no problems with a JET vertical bandsaw. Ryobi has a decent vertical, but I've only used it to cut wood(which it does very well!) It's similar to this one, but the older blue color. The cordless portable ones are surprisingly useful, but the small throat is definitely an issue if you need to cut something long/big/wide. I would advise getting a large bandsaw first, unless you only need to do small stuff. It's great for shortening screws!

Originally Posted by TheModMaster8

6. belt/disk sander are nice but files work the same.

Yes, but belt sanders are big time savers. If you have a long piece of metal with a lot of big burrs/sharp points on one side or you need to flatten or round a corner, that would take a while filing by hand...It's like trying to cut a think steel bar with a hacksaw. Hand files are good for smaller jobs and/or precise work, though.

Some power tools/machines I would recommend, in no order:

Chop saw - Good for quickly cutting almost anything from HDPE and PVC to aluminum and probably steel, though a bandsaw is probably better for cutting metal, as the noise produced by a chop saw on metal is bothersome after about 10 seconds. And a bandsaw is far less likely to turn your workpiece into a bullet.

Reciprocating saw(Sawzall) - Like chop saws and bandsaws, they can cut a lot of things, but they're much more maneuverable. Especially good for cutting long workpieces that won't fit in a saw. However, the vibrations can cause the blade to jump out of the cut, but once you get the cut started, it goes right through. If one or more ends of a workpiece need to be held in place, use a vise. DO NOT hold it with your hands, especially not against a table/bench/any surface while it is being cut with a recip saw unless you have on VERY thick gloves.

Angle grinder - Useful for deburring steel or iron, rounding corners, cutting, making flat areas on motor shafts, removing protruding screw threads, anything else there's a grinder wheel for. Probably one of the most satisfying tools in existence, if not THE most satisfying.

Dremel - Is there anything Dremels can't do?

Cordless drills are always in use - make sure you have enough batteries! Just avoid nicads. And don't forget screwdriver bits.

Air compressor - Use it for cleaning, inflating tires, drilling, grinding, stapling, nailing, riveting, cutting, whatever there's an air tool for...

Maybe a jig saw if you do any intricate cutting and a circular saw if you use a lot of wood. Table saws are good if you need precision for woodcutting. I haven't cut anything on a table saw that couldn't have been cut with a circular or reciprocating saw, but it did save time and the cuts were more accurate than they would have been otherwise.

I think that's all I can think of for now...

TL;DR: I've used a lot of bandsaws, belt sanders save time, chop saws, Sawzalls, and Dremels are great, angle grinder = Most. Satisfying. Tool. EVER.

[sanddrag]

In my experience a Dremel or similar rotary tool has never been a preferred tool in any circumstance. I have not encountered a situation where it gave a favorable outcome over a more proper tool. I'm kind of wondering why I still have one taking up drawer space honestly.

[asid61]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

In my experience a Dremel or similar rotary tool has never been a preferred tool in any circumstance. I have not encountered a situation where it gave a favorable outcome over a more proper tool. I'm kind of wondering why I still have one taking up drawer space honestly.

When I have to cut the end off a screw, the main thing I go to is a dremel because of the small form factor and ability to get into tight spaces. They are versatile enough that we take them to the comps with us instead of angle grinders and the like.

[TheModMaster8]

Originally Posted by EricH

OK, now here's a question...

You have limited budget for tools, and nobody knows how to use a mill.

Does the mill still come before the drill press?



(Hint: the answer isn't "yes". BTW, my team is still working on getting a mill up and running--we've got 4 drill presses, and they see heavy use.)

A drill press is useful for drilling lots of holes, and most particularly for precision thru-holes. Can a mill do that, sure (and I'll concede that it can probably do some aspects better). But if you ain't got the budget for a mill and all its tooling, get a drill press, a couple of punches, and a really good pair of calipers. Oh, and a vise for the drill press, if you've got anything left over. Should be a lot cheaper, and do the hole-drilling job just find. Don't try milling with it, though.

When I was on my older team I got to lead a group of my fellow students to rebuild a lathe and a jig bore, which can be used as a mill.
These machines were honestly, really cheap. For this lathe we paid $700 ( and fixed it up for about another $150 most of it was spent on the paint, oil, and a ACME tap) and the same amount for the jig/mill. http://imgur.com/a/BZheX (I could not find the mill unfortunately)

Here's the website we got it from, this company can be negotiated with to lower the price, https://hgrinc.com

lastly, I'm not saying that a drill press isn't important to have, what I am saying though; is that having a mill can do what a drill press can and more. So instead of spending more on both machines, get the mill first, or just by a small bench top drill press at harbor Freight for about $200 Again this is just my view on the matter

[Chief Hedgehog]

I am assuming that you have already purchased your equipment - no matter what you settled on, it will be beneficial.

Now that the season is over, I hope you have a plan to bring in more sponsors. If not, you are already behind. Here is what you do:

Create three lists:
The first list should be of possible sponsors. Find a connection to each of these (members, parents that are involved on your team that know a person). Then go after them ruthlessly. Beg for a presentation by your team and then march out the best students that can spout the ethos of your program. Make certain you bring a working robot that they can see.

The second list is what you need to be competitive in the next five years. Once you know this, you can start knocking off the machines as you gain more sponsors.

The final list is of possible fundraisers and outreach events. Never discount the energy of your members and how creative they can be. Figure out ways to raise money and ways to get in front of the public.

Good Luck!

[marccenter]

Originally Posted by yerko42

I'm struggling to find a good solution to a metal cutting band saw. Anyone have any thoughts on a good all around saw? we've used a 10in miter box with an aluminum blade but it's blown a few pieces out and generally seems sketchy. Maybe one of those portable band saws with a table attachment? is the small throat an issue?

Here's a metal cutting saw that I have used for our team for small pieces typically used with a FRC team (1inch by 2 inch rectangular tubing). http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...4829&category= This saw can be brought to an FRC event. We also have a larger metal cutting saw in our workshop area.

This season we used a Ryobi chop saw TS1345L and stand A18MS016 donated from Home Depot with a 100 tooth non-ferrous cutting blade http://www.amazon.com/Oshlun-SBNF-10.../dp/B0012YMVBE with much success on the many thin pieces of aluminum used with the KOP chassis build. For safety we purchased a face shield http://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-Clear-...0025/202195394. If you use a cheap chop saw blade to cut aluminum you end up with a lot of flying debris that requires the use of an inexpensive face shield ($14) in addition to standard safety glasses.

[asid61]

Originally Posted by marccenter

Here's a metal cutting saw that I have used for our team for small pieces typically used with a FRC team (1inch by 2 inch rectangular tubing). http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...4829&category= This saw can be brought to an FRC event. We also have a larger metal cutting saw in our workshop area.

Honest question: are there advantages of a horizontal bandsaw over a vertical one other than the automatic feed?

[lorykzarr]

I would think the cost. A machine tool supplier near us has horizontal bandsaws under ~850CAD. The cheapest vertical bandsaw they have is over 3500CAD. Now, these are both purpose built for metal cutting so you could still possibly convert a vertical wood bandsaw for much less.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Cory]

Originally Posted by asid61

Honest question: are there advantages of a horizontal bandsaw over a vertical one other than the automatic feed?

Automatic feed is a huge advantage. When cutting thicker materials it makes a big difference in blade life.

A horizontal is also more likely to have a wider blade, which is going to cut straighter and withstand more blade tension.

Most importantly it's going to give you a much straighter cut than a vertical purely because the material is static and the blade is moving. This is important for anything going on a mill/lathe.

If you can only buy one though, the vertical is the way to go.

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by Cory

Most importantly it's going to give you a much straighter cut than a vertical purely because the material is static and the blade is moving. This is important for anything going on a mill/lathe.

Why? A lathe or mill that is properly trammed should be setting the standard for machined surfaces both parallel and at a sever. A ground surface is a level above that for flatness.

I would think the only way that is true is if your cut is very close to target material size leaving nothing to further true-up.

We've been known to rough drive train plates on the CNC plasma cutter because it's fast but the cuts are nasty. We then clean up on the mill.

[IKE]

Originally Posted by Cory

Automatic feed is a huge advantage. When cutting thicker materials it makes a big difference in blade life.

A horizontal is also more likely to have a wider blade, which is going to cut straighter and withstand more blade tension.

Most importantly it's going to give you a much straighter cut than a vertical purely because the material is static and the blade is moving. This is important for anything going on a mill/lathe.

If you can only buy one though, the vertical is the way to go.

One other advantage of most horizontal saws is that you can cut long objects. Many vertical saws have a "throat" that only allows for 12-36" depending on the saw size. Most horizontal saws tweak the angle of the blade such that the saw can cut any length of material. Long material may require additional supports to keep cuts straight and material from falling.