Award Recognition for Non-STEM Mentors in FRC

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

Well to start DLF needs to be slightly revised to make more students aim towards it as a goal.

Currently at the competition you get only a certificate. (I know in Canada they get a sweatshirt but that is besides the point) This is compared to WFFA where you get a beautiful trophy and blue banner.

They should atleast give DLF a nice trophy or two. Maybe a plaque for the team and a trophy for the student similar to other awards. The certificate while nice is nothing for your school to display and makes it seem like a very sub-par award. (My original certificate did not even have my named spelt right).

Another thing which is kinda odd is the gift bags which after the title is the coolest part of the award. The weird thing about them is they do not tell anyone about them. In fact I am sure there are tons of people here who did not realize FIRST gives out bags full of stuff to DLF. (Usually valued at around $250 this year they went a lot cheaper and id probably say it was $125ish). These bags should be given out at the regional/dcmp to once again show that the award is a bigger deal.

They also announce it towards the end after the obligatory after this point these awards qualify you for championships which is really deceiving. Yes you can go to CMP and most do. But, it makes it seem as if your team also gets to go.

Lastly they should make Dean's List become about Engineering achievements and then create another award similar to what Deans list is now. Dean Kamen is known for his engineering not necessarily his leadership skills so it makes sense to have his name on the engineering one and someone elses name on the leadership one.

Just my 2¢

If you found the award so lacking feel free to give it back, I'm sure there are hundreds, or thousands, of students who would appreciate the recognition and the honor.

- Someone who has seen the deliberations for DL judging and the toll it takes on the judges and is beyond disgusted by the quoted post.

[Sperkowsky]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

If you found the award so lacking feel free to give it back, I'm sure there are hundreds, or thousands, of students who would appreciate the recognition and the honor.

I never said I did not appreciate the honor. I am extremely proud to be a deans list finalist.

I would be doing the same things I do now whether this award existed or not. Revisions to the Dean's List have little effect on me currently.

I said those things to hopefully inspire a few small revisions to the award to make it a bigger deal. Not in the finalists eyes but in those around them.

[Rangel(kf7fdb)]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

Our mentor won WFFA this year. He did not have anything to do with the engineering of the robot.

I think instead of recognizing more mentors we should recognize more students. And maybe do it a little better then a slip of paper.

I think Dean's list right now is fine to be honest. It does a good job recognizing students for their work. I'm not just speaking for myself either but most Dean's List winners/finalists I know continue to stay involved in FIRST whether it be volunteering, mentoring, or other methods. If the goal of the award is to recognize true leaders in the FIRST community then it's doing a good job at it because those past winners are still leading the way regardless of there being an award or not. The gift bag was cool, but it's honestly the thing I cared least about when all is said and done.

In regards to WFA finalists being more prestigious than Dean's List Finalist awards, I think that is fine. In Dean's list, you are competing against other students with roughly the same level of experience. For WFA, the eventual winner is being compared to every other top mentor at the event with many applicants having decades of experience and working with teams. It's usually a lifelong commitment that is being recognized so that's why it's probably more prestigious.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

2. The prestige of EI and Chairmans motivate many teams to do outreach that they otherwise would not do. After a bit of outreach many teams realize how rewarding it realize is and continue. If making the Deans list award seem more prestigious therefore inspiring more motivated Student Leader then whats the issue? Who cares why someone was motivated to become a student leader if they are good at it, learn something, and inspire others then the award succeeded with its goal.

If a team only does outreach to get an award, they're missing the point. My team does outreach because it's part of being in FIRST. It's part of changing the culture. And it's part of raising awareness and money for the team itself. One of my team's Dean's List Finalist's a few years back watched kickoff her first year on the team, and walked away asking, not about the robot, but why a certain large company here in the cities wasn't more involved with the program. By the end of the following summer, she had that company involved, sponsoring a hand full of teams, sponsoring local events, and bringing teams in-house to help with their own STEM-related events and outreach.. That company is now part of our local CAB. I would say that's just about the pinnacle of outreach... All done because she just understood what FIRST was all about.

From what I've seen on my team, Dean's List is not a driving factor for the students. They're part of the team and working towards their own goals and interests in technology, business, and leadershi. While all of the mentors hope our nominees win, we don't submit them because of what they get when they win. We submit the nominations to recognize and thank those students for efforts above and beyond what is expected on the team.

[Michael Corsetto]

Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb)

In regards to WFA finalists being more prestigious than Dean's List Finalist awards, I think that is fine. In Dean's list, you are competing against other students with roughly the same level of experience. For WFA, the eventual winner is being compared to every other top mentor at the event with many applicants having decades of experience and working with teams. It's usually a lifelong commitment that is being recognized so that's why it's probably more prestigious.

+1 to this.

As a recent WFFA recipient, it is an honor to stand among many past WFFA recipients that were mentors when I was a student 10 years ago.

-Mike

[Sperkowsky]

Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb)

I think Dean's list right now is fine to be honest. It does a good job recognizing students for their work. I'm not just speaking for myself either but most Dean's List winners/finalists I know continue to stay involved in FIRST whether it be volunteering, mentoring, or other methods. If the goal of the award is to recognize true leaders in the FIRST community then it's doing a good job at it because those past winners are still leading the way regardless of there being an award or not. The gift bag was cool, but it's honestly the thing I cared least about when all is said and done.

In regards to WFA finalists being more prestigious than Dean's List Finalist awards, I think that is fine. In Dean's list, you are competing against other students with roughly the same level of experience. For WFA, the eventual winner is being compared to every other top mentor at the event with many applicants having decades of experience and working with teams. It's usually a lifelong commitment that is being recognized so that's why it's probably more prestigious.

Being a Dean's Finalist means more to my team and school then it really does to me.

Whether I got the award or not I would be doing the same thing. I still plan on continuing volunteering and I plan on mentoring as soon as I can no longer be a student. Heck I quoted that exactly when talking to the judges.

I know an award like DLF, WFFA, Chairmans, or EI is not about the physical award. But, a lot less teams would aspire to win Chairmans or EE if the award was not as large.

That said I am going to stop commenting on this thread as we have completely reverted from the original goal. Id be happy to discuss this further in a PM.

[Red2486]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

Well to start DLF needs to be slightly revised to make more students aim towards it as a goal.

Currently at the competition you get only a certificate. (I know in Canada they get a sweatshirt but that is besides the point) This is compared to WFFA where you get a beautiful trophy and blue banner.

They should atleast give DLF a nice trophy or two. Maybe a plaque for the team and a trophy for the student similar to other awards. The certificate while nice is nothing for your school to display and makes it seem like a very sub-par award. (My original certificate did not even have my named spelt right).

I think you may be missing one of the greatest benefits of the award, which is as a tool to boost college applications. This is part of why the Dean of Admissions from WPI, Yale, and MIT all speak during the lunches (and previously the awards ceremonies). Being a finalist, or even semi-finalist, is a huge boost for your resume and really shows colleges (especially those that value or partner with FIRST) what kind of student you are. This is largely the reasoning for excluding seniors from the award now.

Additionally, as Dean pointed out at the lunch, this award benefits you hugely in terms of networking. You now have 150 others in your Dean's List class, as well as the hundreds that have come before you, to collaborate with and to consult. You should, if you are not already, also be in the Dean's List Finalist Facebook group, which presents many opportunities for you and the others in that group.

I hope that you emailed someone for a new certificate with your name spelled correctly.

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

Another thing which is kinda odd is the gift bags which after the title is the coolest part of the award. The weird thing about them is they do not tell anyone about them. In fact I am sure there are tons of people here who did not realize FIRST gives out bags full of stuff to DLF. (Usually valued at around $250 this year they went a lot cheaper and id probably say it was $125ish). These bags should be given out at the regional/dcmp to once again show that the award is a bigger deal.

In previous years, they announced this information during the awards ceremony. Since they have moved the ceremony to be a part of opening ceremonies, they took this piece out. I assume it was in an effort to encourage students to pursue Dean's List for the recognition and honor rather than for the cool stuff you get (though it is pretty cool).

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

They also announce it towards the end after the obligatory after this point these awards qualify you for championships which is really deceiving. Yes you can go to CMP and most do. But, it makes it seem as if your team also gets to go.

While I know that the language used in the follow up emails can be confusing, a close reading of the Administrative Manual should relieve some of this confusion.

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

Lastly they should make Dean's List become about Engineering achievements and then create another award similar to what Deans list is now. Dean Kamen is known for his engineering not necessarily his leadership skills so it makes sense to have his name on the engineering one and someone elses name on the leadership one.

Morphing the criteria to something like this, and again doubling the pool of Dean's List Finalists and Winners, would devalue the present award.

While the criteria mentions "technical expertise", this is not the focus of the award, and awesome future engineers are not explicitly what Dean is looking for in a Dean's List class. Rather, as he talked about during the Dean's List lunch, he is looking for excellent students who will become excellent FIRST Alum, and who will remain in FIRST in order to give back to the program.

Dean's pride isn't in the fact that he is an engineer, it is in the fact that he has had a huge impact on the world and has been able to give back in extraordinary ways. The documentary about him, Slingshot, provides some light on this topic.

[itsjustjon]

I believe FIRST, in general, should show acceptance of non-STEM mentors (and students, in the case of Dean's List) by merely expanding the provided descriptions of what an ideal recipient of each award looks like.

Instead of using "An enthusiastic or passionate love of STEM" as a criterion, just say "An outstanding individual who exceeds in his/her field of FIRST Robotics".

That being said, does it truly matter?

If my team personally recognizes my abilities and goes so far as to even say "Man, I really think he's earned the XYZ award because of Random Reason No. 2.", that's worth more to me than the award itself.

[PayneTrain]

I wrote the WFA essays for two years and have written the DLA essays for 4 years while also making myself available to advise the students on WFA if they wish if/when they nominate someone. The students nominated for WFA a mentor who is not an engineer (it was really easy to do that on 422, since all returning mentors for the 2016 season were not engineers). She was Volunteer of the Year in VA in 2011, serving the Commonwealth for the previous decade as a key figure in bringing to life the existence of FIRST in Virginia. She was and still is my mentor in FIRST and life and I was very glad and very not surprised the kids nominated her this year.

The two Dean's List Award nominees had significant technical and non-technical involvement in the team (a really easy thing to do since every returning member to 422 is cross-trained to do one or multiple things in the technical or community operations divisions of the team). Since they are too humble to say this themselves, they were two of the finest team members to ever serve on our team.

I find FRC judging to be fascinating! I also find the prospect of being the blue shirts to go over the Dean's List nominees to be terrifying and thankfully I am far too unqualified and wretched of a soul to ever win the WFA and don't have to worry about tackling the even harder task of picking WF(F)As. Many parties make great sacrifices to push this program forward, and the ones who sacrifice the most are people who end up nominated for these awards. Those who deliberate over the essays and interviews have a very excruciating task. This is doubly true at the championship levels. It's a given that fantastic nominees will slip through the cracks, but the judges also run the risk of not getting the entirety of a person's character in the essays or interviews.

Recognition in FRC and in life is not something that functions in as singular dimension of resume-building. Rather, it can be seen as a challenge for ones recognized to prove the worth of the merit themselves. I believe Dean said the Founder's Award and Chairman's Award are clocks to serve as a reminder to the winners that the time they spend looking at their trophy is time not being spent doing the work that won them the trophy. Andy Baker could better answer it, but the reason the WFA is a mobius strip is similar. It's recognizing the journey of a mentor.

I remember my senior year in high school was the first year that FIRST put wheels in motion so that by 2014, the award was supposed to primarily nominate juniors. Realizing this, myself and the other would be DLFA nominee (also named Wil with one "L", very uncanny) petitioned our mentors to nominate two juniors that year instead. It didn't really bother us that much. When the two of us and a couple other friends of mine took over student leadership in the previous year, we did so with a mindset that it was our duty to be good stewards of 422 and ensure the program can grow stronger after we graduated. I hope this covenant will one day bear stronger results.

I do think that FIRST could stand to emphasize its R as actively as they do their I, but I hope that everyone who contributes to 422 and FIRST in Virginia can understand that I am eternally grateful and indebted to them and their service. We recognize our DLA and WFA nominees, as well as other outstanding members of 422 at the end of the season.

If FIRST ever wants to recognize more mentors, I think we would all appreciate a spa day, a set number of therapy sessions, or both.

[Oblarg]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

This raises a question I haven't thought of before... Have teams gotten a WFFA for non-technical mentors?

Yes.

[popnbrown]

I think we really ought to assess non-STEM vs. STEM here. In the realm of FIRST, I find that stellar FIRST students and stellar FIRST mentors don't completely fit in the non-STEM or STEM category.

Dean's List Winners (Finalists as well), WFFA/WFA winners and Compass winners are just stand out FIRST community members.

[Madison]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

This raises a question I haven't thought of before... Have teams gotten a WFFA for non-technical mentors?

I know the WFFA is strongly biased towards technical mentors (just read the description or judging criteria in the rulebook), but it seems to me that a well written essay for a deserving non technical mentor could win as well. I had the chance to read the nomination my students submitted for me this year, and I know the focus of the submission was communication, leadership, and impact - technical aspects were really a sideshow. I also know the 2015 WFA winner quite well, and his impact on FIRST here in Minnesota has not been technical at all - communication, leadership, organization, sustained growth, mentoring support, all amazing aspects he brings to the table. But from my experience he doesn't really get into the technical stuff.

Our team leader won WFFA in 2012 (I think). The only involvement she has with our robots involves her credit card.

[KathieK]

Originally Posted by karomata

We are currently petitioning to help bring more recognition to non-engineering mentors within the FIRST community. In addition to the community’s skilled pool of engineering mentors, many teams have mentors who help with organization, financial management, community outreach, presentation, and the many other aspects that make a well rounded FIRST team. These mentors work behind the scenes to lead their teams, but currently have no opportunity for award recognition in the FIRST Robotics Competition. Join us in the campaign for NEMO recognition!

First of all, thank you for thinking of us NEMs. I've read through this interesting thread (even though it got a little off-topic!) and am thrilled that many NEMs have been nominated and recognized for their non-technical expertise as Woodie Flowers Award nominees and winners.

However, although the nominees need not be engineers, one of the criteria is: "Clear explanation of mathematical, scientific, and engineering concepts" - something I would never be able to do!

I'm not sure what the answer is - changing the criteria of the WFA or adding an additional award... But I encourage each of you who have non-engineering mentors (who may or may not be be engineers) to join NEMO (Non-Engineering Mentor Organization) so they can provide support to one another! http://www.firstnemo.org

[hrench]

I think most people don't even realize that the WFA criteria says anything about STEM vs. not-technical mentors. I'm pretty sure our team normally considers all of the mentors.

But there are two other points I want to make that this made me think of.

One. Most other activities in life have plenty of ways to highlight and award individual performance. Sports, Debate, Theatre...the newspaper will write stories about the MVP or the lead actress in the play. The soloist in the Band.
Yes, we have WFA and DLF, but mostly, we're really lacking for ways to individually recognize people for outstanding achievement. Yes, we take lots of photos of the drive-team and the Chairman's group and rightly so, but we never say who the 'best' of anything was. Mentors or students. When the newspaper writes the story, they want that personal angle and story. We don't give it. Yes we're a team, but I think we need more spotlights. I don't have it figured out how, but that's what I think. I think it would attract more high-achievers.

Two. WFA and DLF are completely judged awards. I'm a science guy. I like things that can be measured. I like numbers. If I could say "Joe has 2043 midi-chlorians, he wins the WFA," that would be great with me. Even other judged activities--diving, gymnastics, fiddle contests...try to simplify performances for judging purposes down to scores that can be added up. We don't do that for these or Chairmans or any other activities? Or do the judges actually use numbers behind the scenes? I'm not a judge, I don't know. I can't think of things that we can measure for mentors or student team members that would give us numbers, but it's just a thought I want on the table. Judging with numbers would be good, I think.

After reading Sperkowsky's (try not to mis-spell ) remarks about DLA, I also point out that I know that there are people--even high achievers--that don't wan't the spotlight. I don't have a solution for that because in our society I think its important to laud the high achievers. It encourages more high achievement. If we give everyone a trophy, we might encourage mediocrity.

Not trying to hijack the string, but maybe we should discuss these somewhere.

[cadandcookies]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

This raises a question I haven't thought of before... Have teams gotten a WFFA for non-technical mentors?

Back in 2012, the then faculty adviser of 2220 was nominated for and won WFFA at North Star. He loves to joke that if he is helping with the robot, the team was in big trouble. While he's definitely a technical guy (at the time he won, he was doing IT at the high school), he was exclusively a non-technical mentor.

Re: Dean's List

The award is fine. Dean's List is not about the "swag bag." It's about recognizing student leaders. Associating that with the monetary cost of a bag of items devalues the award to me.

I do somewhat agree with the idea of giving the team a trophy for Dean's List finalists/winners-- how many teams out there say their goal is to build people? It makes sense to recognize that the achievements of an individual student on a team were made possible by the strong foundation that the team provides.