pic: Houston Venue for Championship 2017

[ATannahill]

Originally Posted by Bkeeneykid

I decided to work on a 6 alliance elimination schedule. This is probably a crazy idea, but it'll probably work.

Match    Blue   Red
TF1       1        6
TF2       2        5
TF3       3        4

SF1       TF1    TF2
SF2       TF1    TF3
SF3       TF2    TF3

F          SF1     SF3

(repeat each match, then do tie breakers, like normal eliminations)

To explain this, the Tri-Finals (for lack of a better name) would be the equivalent of the current Quarters. The Semi-Finals is where it gets weird. The winners of each Tri-final go on to do two matches (Technically 4-6, with tiebreakers). If they win both semi-finals, they go onto regular finals, proceeding like normal finals. If they loose one of them, they'll replay the match between the two (again, with second round & tiebreaker). Then that winning alliance goes onto regular finals.

With only six alliances, there's a potential maximum of 27 rounds for eliminations, assuming each round goes to a tiebreaker. There's a minimum of 14, so I could see the wide variety of times to plan for an issue. But it proves that six alliance playoffs are possible.

EDIT: Made a quick flowchart of how this proposed flow would go:

I am confused how you get your two finalists, can you explain it again?

As I understand each round proceeds normally, there are two matches played, if each match goes to a different alliance than a third is played hopefully generating a winner. The winner of the TF1 round moves on, the winner of the TF2 round moves on and the winner of the TF3 moves on.

I do not understand how you narrow down from the three Tri-final winners to the two finalists.

Edit: The flowchart makes it easier to understand, I would suggest switching the names of SF2 and SF3. How do you even out the fact that TF2 has played twice as many matches as TF1 or TF3 if SF2(3) is not needed?

[Bkeeneykid]

Originally Posted by rtfgnow

I am confused how you get your two finalists, can you explain it again?

As I understand each round proceeds normally, there are two matches played, if each match goes to a different alliance than a third is played hopefully generating a winner. The winner of the TF1 round moves on, the winner of the TF2 round moves on and the winner of the TF3 moves on.

I do not understand how you narrow down from the three Tri-final winners to the two finalists.

Edit: The flowchart makes it easier to understand, I would suggest switching the names of SF2 and SF3. How do you even out the fact that TF2 has played twice as many matches as TF1 or TF3 if SF2(3) is not needed?

I just did another edit to make it more clear again. The basic idea is that the winners of TF2 play both matches. If they loose both of them, TF1 and TF3 go onto finals. If they loose one, the one they lost against and the winner of the other Tri-Final go onto finals. If the win both, SM3 (or 5, numbering is hard here), is a Tie-Breaker between the winners of TF1 and TF2 to go onto finals with TF2.

[ATannahill]

Originally Posted by Bkeeneykid

I just did another edit to make it more clear again. The basic idea is that the winners of TF2 play both matches. If they loose both of them, TF1 and TF3 go onto finals. If they loose one, the one they lost against and the winner of the other Tri-Final go onto finals. If the win both, SM3 (or 5, numbering is hard here), is a Tie-Breaker between the winners of TF1 and TF2 to go onto finals with TF2.

We are way off topic so this is going to be my last post on your proposal.

I suggest you create a table with the following columns:

Independent 1: Outcome of SF1/3
Independent 2: Outcome of SF2/4
Dependent 1: Is SF5/6 played?
Dependent 2: what alliances become finalists
Dependent 3: If D1 is no and D2 includes TF2 (I'm not 100% sure this is possible), how do you make things fair for TF1/3?

Another question: What if TF2 plays hard in matches 1 and 3 but doesn't try (maybe even doesn't field a robot) for matches 2/4?

[Bkeeneykid]

To give another example for this proposed system, I redid this years Einstein matches in this format. I had to cut two alliances (Sorry Archimedes and Carson, I still love you!), but I made some reasonable predictions so that the finals rounds would still be the same. The quarter finals are the same schedule as the Tri-Finals.

	Blue	Red
TF1	Newton	Hopper
TF2	Galileo	Tesla
TF3	Curie	Carver
TF1 M2	Newton	Hopper
TF2 M2	Galileo	Tesla
TF3 M2	Curie	Carver
TF3 M3	Curie	Carver
SM1	Hopper	Tesla
SM2	Carver	Tesla
SM1 M2	Hopper	Tesla
SM2 M2	Carver	Tesla
SM2 M3	Carver	Tesla
SM3 	Hopper	Carver
SM3 M2	Hopper 	Carver
SM3 M3	Hopper 	Carver
F1	Tesla	Carver
F2	Tesla	Carver
F3	Tesla	Carver

[Bkeeneykid]

Originally Posted by rtfgnow

We are way off topic so this is going to be my last post on your proposal.

I suggest you create a table with the following columns:

Independent 1: Outcome of SF1/3
Independent 2: Outcome of SF2/4
Dependent 1: Is SF5/6 played?
Dependent 2: what alliances become finalists
Dependent 3: If D1 is no and D2 includes TF2 (I'm not 100% sure this is possible), how do you make things fair for TF1/3?

Another question: What if TF2 plays hard in matches 1 and 3 but doesn't try (maybe even doesn't field a robot) for matches 2/4?

First, here's that table:

SF1	SF2	D1:	D2: Finalists
TF1	TF2	Not	TF1,TF2
TF2	TF2	Yes	TF2,SF5
TF1	TF3	Not	TF1.TF3
TF2	TF3	Not	TF2,TF3

In response to Dependent 3, this is where SF5 comes in. If TF2 wins both, they go to SF5. If they win only one of their Semi Final matches, they still are on the finalist alliance, but the winning team on the other semi final match goes into finals.

In responce to your other question, I feel that would be going against Gracious Professionalism. If they are not completely sure that they would win the other semi final match, this would not be a viable strategy. I would say if they refuse to field a robot on one of their semi final matches, they would be punished by forfeiting all semi final matches. In this case, the finalists would be TF1 and TF3.

[araniaraniratul]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

And then watch Newton get eliminated on Einstein anyways. How different would it really be with 8/50? I'd you think it's that predictable, you're basically assuming 1seeds out of each division. Would the 1 seeds out of 8/50 look that different than 1 and 2 out of 4/100? 2nd and 3rd picks would be weaker, but there's usually a big drop off there anyways.

The thought was based on Cory pointing out how thin the Divisions would get. With division assignments being random, there's still an opportunity for a similar situation where a lot of quality tea\ms underperform due to a somewhat disadvantageous schedule. And yeah, Newton got kicked right out the gate, but those Division elims were so brutal on everyone involved that really wasn't a surprise

[Paul Richardson]

Originally Posted by Richard Wallace

While it does work well for drive teams and volunteers, MSC two-field style is not going to be good for those in the stands. This is because bleacher seats for two fields will not provide adequate viewing of both fields. The much larger seating capacity of the Deltaplex (22 rows on one side, 36 rows on the other) make seeing both MSC fields easy from most seats. Bleacher seats will likely be 15 rows.

With a bit of planning, the problem of poor viewing angles could be used to solve the problem of insufficient seating. If people can't stay in one spot and see every match they will naturally come and go to switch which field they're watching (or visit the pits, or something else), opening up seating.

Block out the prime sections for scouts and VIPs, and make sure everything else has intentionally bad sight lines to the further field (don't want to leave any prime seating free-for-all because people will fight over it).

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by Bkeeneykid

Originally Posted by Bkeeneykid

(Explanation)

Originally Posted by Bkeeneykid

(Further Explanantion with Examples)

Originally Posted by Bkeeneykid

(Yet More Explanation)

I'm starting to get worried that if this thread goes any farther, Bkeeney might stumble upon the forbidden words and summon the Elimination Bracket of Doom.

[lynca]

Reserve your hotel rooms early !
There are many hotels downtown within walking distance of the convention center.

The light rail "Convention District" stop is the closest to the venue. http://www.houstontx.gov/abouthouston/lightrail.html

Houston has lots of parking, but Bus parking can get complicated especially with the new construction for the SuperBowl.

[clicato100]

I'm curious if any teams will check out the Houston tunnels for lunch Friday . . . so few people ever know about them and the East End expansion is just across Discovery Green now

http://www.downtownhouston.org/site_...DMAP2015-2.pdf

[hrench]

Did they already say if they'll use the same scientists' names in both 'championships?'

I'd be cool with them adding some famous engineer names.