Ftc World Championship

[FTC5110]

Irony: FTC teams look forward to the championsplit because we might end up in the same venue as FRC again.

Why FTC finals aren't played out during the main event closing like FRC is beyond me. This omission makes it feel like a sideshow even before being shunted out of the main venue. Granted the game is a little smaller but that just makes it easier to put on the big screen. Even a demonstration match from the top 2 FLL teams would be a worthy use of 2.5 minutes.

Having taken teams to both VEX and FTC worlds last month I can definitively say [redacted]

To FIRST - Celebrate ALL your champions.

[Sperkowsky]

I will preface this by saying I do not participate in ftc although I have volunteered at multiple events.

To start cost
FTC has an annual registration cost of $275 compared to $5000 for frc
FTC teams pay $1,000 for world's where as frc pays $5,000

When you are talking about those price gaps you can not expect the same presentation value.

I can see the frustration of not being in the dome but the bottom line is frc does come first and probablt always will. It's bigger and sponsors/spectators like bigger along with it being the clear flagship program of FIRST.

Also in regards to the video angle thing I should remind you only one of those feeds are actually from first a lot of video is actuallt shot by teams. Nothing stopping you guys from doing the same.

Its a smaller scale robotics program and will be treated forever as so. I'd have to recommend vex over ftc just for the fact that you will be treated as the flagship program. Or, if you are a high school team raise some money and do FRC. I and plenty others would be willing to help.

[FTC5110]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

To start cost
FTC has an annual registration cost of $275 compared to $5000 for frc
FTC teams pay $1,000 for world's where as frc pays $5,000

When you are talking about those price gaps you can not expect the same presentation value.

Um... FTC takes up less than 1/5 of the area and resources FRC does so that's not a great argument you present. FTC annual registration doesn't include a KOP.

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

I can see the frustration of not being in the dome but the bottom line is frc does come first and probablt always will. It's bigger and sponsors/spectators like bigger along with it being the clear flagship program of FIRST.

Stuff I don't want to publish

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

Its a smaller scale robotics program and will be treated forever as so. I'd have to recommend vex over ftc just for the fact that you will be treated as the flagship program. Or, if you are a high school team raise some money and do FRC. I and plenty others would be willing to help.

More stuff I don't want to publish

[Sperkowsky]

Originally Posted by FTC5110

Um... FTC takes up less than 1/5 of the area and resources FRC does so that's not a great argument you present. FTC annual registration doesn't include a KOP.

The kop is mostly (almost all iirc) sponsored parts. And that extra 5k for Champs has nothing to do with it.

If you want better presentation you pay more it's as simple as that.

[MattRain]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

I will preface this by saying I do not participate in ftc although I have volunteered at multiple events.

To start cost
FTC has an annual registration cost of $275 compared to $5000 for frc
FTC teams pay $1,000 for world's where as frc pays $5,000

When you are talking about those price gaps you can not expect the same presentation value.

Most people always use this "registration" cost argument.

Lets look at this in the most basic terms of getting a working robot together, and calendar, for a chance to WORLDS.

FRC registration includes: ($5,000)
1) General Registration
2) Multiple Kit of Parts (Enough to build a basic robot)
3) 1 regional (2 district events)
4) Game pieces
(*Total $9000 if District state.)

FTC Budget for Basic Robot and registration
1) Registration: $275
2) Qualifier: $100-200 dollars per event (2 or 3 qualifiers for most teams)
3) Regional: 175-300 dollars
4) Super Regional: $500 registration not including travel.
5) Basic Tetrix or Actobotics: $2000
6) Basic Game Pieces and Motors from Andymark: $400
7) Basic Electronics from Modern Robotics: $350
8) ZTE Phones (Our RoboRio...): $80
FTC Basic Budget: $4000-5000 ($4,505 if you had 1 registration, 3 qualifiers at 200, 1 regional at 300, 1 super regional, and robot supplies.)

[Sperkowsky]

Originally Posted by MattRain

Most people always use this "registration" cost argument.

Lets look at this in the most basic terms of getting a working robot together, and calendar, for a chance to WORLDS.

FRC registration includes: ($5,000)
1) General Registration
2) Multiple Kit of Parts (Enough to build a basic robot)
3) 1 regional (2 district events)
4) Game pieces

FTC Budget for Basic Robot and registration
1) Registration: $275
2) Qualifier: $100-200 dollars per event (2 or 3 qualifiers for most teams)
3) Regional: 175-300 dollars
4) Super Regional: $500 registration not including travel.

5) Basic Tetrix or Actobotics: $2000
6) Basic Game Pieces and Motors from Andymark: $400
7) Basic Electronics from Modern Robotics: $350
8) ZTE Phones (Our RoboRio...): $80
FTC Basic Budget: $4000-5000 ($4,505 if you had 1 registration, 3 qualifiers at 200, 1 regional at 300, 1 super regional, and robot supplies.)

Enough to build a basic robot? Umm no.

It does not include all of the control system in fact this year all we got from the virtual kit and kop was a radio, and a pdb. We still had to pay close to $1,000 for the rest of the control system. Not to mention all of the metal, motors, and other parts needed to build an Frc robot.

Let's not forget all of our $10,000 is going straight to First. All that's going to First from you guys is $1,375.

You budgeted $2,000 for tetrix which for many is a one time expense. All the ftc teams I know take their bots apart and reuse the tetrix stuff.

Frc teams easily coast 5-10 times that on an ftc team which is why ftc exists. I'd waste time going through what we have to budget for but it's a lost cause.

[FTC5110]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

Frc teams easily coast 5-10 times that on an ftc team which is why ftc exists. I'd waste time going through what we have to budget for but it's a lost cause.

And I'm sure you get at least 5-10 times student inspiration outcomes as well but no need to waste your time going through that.

[MattRain]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

Enough to build a basic robot? Umm no.

It does not include all of the control system in fact this year all we got from the virtual kit and kop was a radio, and a pdb. We still had to pay close to $1,000 for the rest of the control system. Not to mention all of the metal, motors, and other parts needed to build an Frc robot.

Let's not forget all of our $10,000 is going straight to First. All that's going to First from you guys is $1,375.

You budgeted $2,000 for tetrix which for many is a one time expense. All the ftc teams I know take their bots apart and reuse the tetrix stuff.

Frc teams easily coast 5-10 times that on an ftc team which is why ftc exists. I'd waste time going through what we have to budget for but it's a lost cause.

While I know what kind of money it takes to run an FRC team, I'm just going to leave it at a few points.

1) Brand New FRC control system was in the KOP last year.... FTC was not given anything this year, for the new system. (Most world FTC teams spent close to $1000 in parts because the new system is CRAP and Modern Robotics has a monopoly on FTC.) (I was being nice with the $350)
2) Part of the $5000 Registration goes toward running an FRC Regional, where FTC Partners in their states have to scrape together money through more state wide registration costs.
3) Super Regional adds to registration and travel costs.
4) While Tetrix Kits of parts can be reused, and most teams do reuse it, you still have to buy into it as a new team. (More teams are starting to build their robots on an FRC scale, custom to keep costs down)
5) Up until 2 years ago, we had a small spot in the Dome. Moved out to bring in more money through FRC teams, shoved in a corner (quite literally, with no sitting/standing room space in the stands or pits) and 5 miles away.
6) Hard to inspire the students when their Super Regional's are of better quality than that of FTC Worlds, plus with the lower costs.

I'm not going to continue arguing on a few basic things that FIRST could look into, to help us not feel like "the redheaded stepchild" at WORLDS.