Could alliance picks go this way

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Knufire

It's the offseason. They don't have anything better to do.

Sure they do.

There's all KINDS of "standard CD arguments" to restart, for one thing. There's also robots to tune for offseason events. Can't forget planning what they aren't going to get done this summer (AKA, "summer project").

And that's just on the robot side; I'm ignoring the rest of life here!

[Peyton Yeung]

What would happen if everyone at a tournament declined a pick from the number one seed? It would never happen because people outside the top 8 would want to make sure they play in playoffs but if all the teams decline then no alliances can be formed. Who would qualify for worlds? No one?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Peyton Yeung

What would happen if everyone at a tournament declined a pick from the number one seed? It would never happen because people outside the top 8 would want to make sure they play in playoffs but if all the teams decline then no alliances can be formed. Who would qualify for worlds? No one?

If everyone at a tournament declined a pick from the number one seed, I rather suspect that someone would be on the phone to HQ as soon as they figured out that they wouldn't have enough non-declining teams to form alliances for further guidance.

And I'd rather suspect that the guidance would indicate to run selections again... probably with some announcement about how you need a full set of teams...

[ATannahill]

Originally Posted by Peyton Yeung

What would happen if everyone at a tournament declined a pick from the number one seed? It would never happen because people outside the top 8 would want to make sure they play in playoffs but if all the teams decline then no alliances can be formed. Who would qualify for worlds? No one?

I saw a comment on CD that at a 24 or 25 team event this year (I believe it was a NC district, I don't remember what event) that the first seed alliance would go with only two robots if that was the case. Extrapolating (which to some people is a bad word) that logic, there would be 8 single robot robot alliances since every team declined before the second seed was able to make their first pick.

[asid61]

Originally Posted by EricH

Sure they do.

There's all KINDS of "standard CD arguments" to restart, for one thing. There's also robots to tune for offseason events. Can't forget planning what they aren't going to get done this summer (AKA, "summer project").

And that's just on the robot side; I'm ignoring the rest of life here!

That reminds me, off to go talk about 254 being mentor built in a poorly grammared post...

In any case this (picking teams that have already been picked) is an interesting conundrum. I'm surprised it's taken this long to think of at all. However I would argue that this is an actual situation where a team would be non-GP (for once), as you would be poaching teams from other alliances.

[FrankJ]

Originally Posted by asid61

In any case this (picking teams that have already been picked) is an interesting conundrum. I'm surprised it's taken this long to think of at all. However I would argue that this is an actual situation where a team would be non-GP (for once), as you would be poaching teams from other alliances.

I have seen it happen, most likely unintentionally. It never gets past the announcer saying that they are already picked and you can't have them. One way or the other I don't see GP entering into this.

[Alan Anderson]

I would consider alliance captains to have been "invited" by the ranking system and thus be unavailable to be picked again. This interpretation works with the option of a potential alliance captain to "decline" the opportunity and choose not to participate in the playoffs.

[asid61]

Originally Posted by FrankJ

I have seen it happen, most likely unintentionally. It never gets past the announcer saying that they are already picked and you can't have them. One way or the other I don't see GP entering into this.

A team doing it intentionally would be non-GP is my point. Has a team ever tried to override the announcer?
"1678 has already been-"
"lol don't care"

[TJP123]

I don't have my lawyer on retainer until January, so I had to ask Common Sense.


Common Sense slapped me in the back of the head and said, "Stay off CD."

[Green Potato]

Originally Posted by rtfgnow

I saw a comment on CD that at a 24 or 25 team event this year (I believe it was a NC district, I don't remember what event) that the first seed alliance would go with only two robots if that was the case. Extrapolating (which to some people is a bad word) that logic, there would be 8 single robot robot alliances since every team declined before the second seed was able to make their first pick.

I was actually there, it was the UNC Asheville District. There were 24 teams present. At the team representative meeting, the head ref said the rules indicated that if a team for some reason could not play eliminations, the #1 seed would play with 2 robots instead of the usual 3, and that there would be no backup robots. Thankfully, all 24 teams were available to play, and I actually enjoyed watching Elims, but the logic above seems to be what would happen. 1 broken bot = no captures for the rest of the event for that alliance. (Even if only 2 bots are formally on the alliance, 2 < 3.)

In the end, though, this is purely theoretical. No reasonable team below 15th position would decline an invitation to an alliance should they want to play in elims, as fun as theorizing about such a situation would be.

[rich2202]

I remember a situation where the #2 seed was "lucky" during qualifications to be on strong alliances.

I can envision where #2 selected #3-#8, and they all declined. #3 then goes to team NNNN, who accepts (otherwise they are out of the playoffs). Let's say that #3 also wanted NNNN. #3 could select NNNN (NNNN had not yet declined), and NNNN would rather play with #3 because #2 is not so good.

Finding loopholes in the rules is not against "gracious professionalism". GP is fiercely competing while treating others with "respect and kindness". NNNN going to the #3 alliance is "fierce competition". It is no more "disrespectful" or "unkind" to Seed #2 than Seeds #3-#8 declining, and what team XXXX feels when they are not selected by anyone.

[asid61]

Originally Posted by rich2202

I remember a situation where the #2 seed was "lucky" during qualifications to be on strong alliances.

I can envision where #2 selected #3-#8, and they all declined. #3 then goes to team NNNN, who accepts (otherwise they are out of the playoffs). Let's say that #3 also wanted NNNN. #3 could select NNNN (NNNN had not yet declined), and NNNN would rather play with #3 because #2 is not so good.

Finding loopholes in the rules is not against "gracious professionalism". GP is fiercely competing while treating others with "respect and kindness". NNNN going to the #3 alliance is "fierce competition". It is no more "disrespectful" or "unkind" to Seed #2 than Seeds #3-#8 declining, and what team XXXX feels when they are not selected by anyone.

But such a system would necessitate having a 4th or even 5th round of picks, and it would effectively allow the #1 seed to get seeds #2 and 3 on their team, which would make for a very one-sided (albeit exciting) eliminations rounds.
Which leads to an interesting example: let's take your example a step further and make #1 choose #3 as well as their first pick. Who is now captain of the #3 alliance if #3 accepts? Is it the #4 seed or team NNNN?

[ATannahill]

Originally Posted by asid61

But such a system would necessitate having a 4th or even 5th round of picks, and it would effectively allow the #1 seed to get seeds #2 and 3 on their team, which would make for a very one-sided (albeit exciting) eliminations rounds.
Which leads to an interesting example: let's take your example a step further and make #1 choose #3 as well as their first pick. Who is now captain of the #3 alliance if #3 accepts? Is it the #4 seed or team NNNN?

How does this effect district points? NNNN would get the same amount either way but would the second pick of the #3 alliance go from 3 points to 14 points?

[346CADmen]

Originally Posted by Knufire

It's the offseason. They don't have anything better to do.

\s

Actually I only waited until the off season.
The question came to me at 2AM Sat. morning after the end of qualifying rounds on Hopper. I awoke from a dream of our team/alliance winning Einstein and set to recall how. In my dream I recalled a bit of the alliance capabilities and realized the other robots. Then looked at selection strategy the teams I saw us with were both higher seeds. I knew we ranked at nine but would move to seven captain, trapping us (given my understanding of the un-written rules) from playing with the teams to which I saw us best suited for success. Then read the rules and didn’t see what I thought I may.
So while my dream alliance did not come to be, I was left to wonder if it could have.