Quitting FRC for Vex?

[TDav540]

Originally Posted by GreyingJay

I recognize it may not BE possible. It would definitely change the competition landscape. The calendar logistics aside, a longer build season would allow the rookies to actually get a robot done but then the 1114's and 254's of the world would have that much more time to build something amazing. It could lower the entry barrier but widen the competition gap, forcing the rookies to work that much harder anyway just to keep up.

In the end, I think there's definitely a place for both programs.

There definitely is the space for both. As Blake said, 95% of roboteers aren't in either program. We've still got a large space to grow.

The "extend build season/no more bag day" argument has been talked about so much that

If we want to start that discussion, there are plenty of other threads to do it. Let's try to avoid derailing this one.

[jman4747]

Originally Posted by TDav540

The "extend build season/no more bag day" argument has been talked about so much that

If we want to start that discussion, there are plenty of other threads to do it. Let's try to avoid derailing this one.

It is a distinct difference between the two programs, and mentor involvement and cost to teams are directly affected by this.

I also think that FRC is the technological pinnacle of high school robotics no one I've ever shown this to, especially an engineer, expects to find high school students doing anything this advanced. Like the comment one of our new mentors gave at the end of the season was: "this was more complex than my final project from college."

Another question for everyone: What do you think the purpose of FRC is other than what could be accomplished by another program? What does or could FRC do better than anything else?

PS I'm asking out of pure curiosity. I am completely invested in FRC and would only quit if it ceased to exist.

[Foster]

Originally Posted by jman4747

I also think that FRC is the technological pinnacle of high school robotics no one I've ever shown this to, especially an engineer, expects to find high school students doing anything this advanced. Like the comment one of our new mentors gave at the end of the season was: "this was more complex than my final project from college."

I agree with this, FRC robots are just amazing. There are some other programs like the Underwater competition that build some pretty amazing robots also.

I give the nod to FRC doing best is the complex tasks with a 120lb robot. This game brought out a lot of serious engineering to keep robots together for 2:30. The leap in vision from last year to this year was pretty amazing, I'd love to see next years game have a component that could be helped again by advanced vision systems.

I'd like to see FTC/VEX be allowed to use some of the smaller cameras as a off board vision system: Open MV programmed in Python

[FTC5110]

Originally Posted by Foster

I'd like to see FTC/VEX be allowed to use some of the smaller cameras as a off board vision system: Open MV programmed in Python

Got that in FTC. The phones have cameras and some teams were using them this season. Come to the light side, we too have cookies and a lot of scope for new stuff next season.

[rlance]

Are there grants available with the Vex program like there are with FRC? If not, then for our team I'm not sure that Vex wouldn't cost more.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by rlance

Are there grants available with the Vex program like there are with FRC? If not, then for our team I'm not sure that VEX wouldn't cost more.

Yes, there are VEX grants. You can get these specifically from VEX's foundation as well as any number external grants and sponsorships. It works much like FRC in that respect (notwithstanding debates of flashiness to sponsors and necessary fundraising amounts).

http://www.roboticseducation.org/for...s/team-grants/

[Foster]

STEMRobotics has grants for Delaware Teams for both IQ and EDR. We have some out of state grants on a on a one off basis. We are happy to look at any proposal.

[ARampantBrian]

I think there are many things that VEX and FRC get right individually. I did both in high school and continue to mentor in FRC currently.

VRC is much better for many schools/organizations. As has been mentioned before, VRC is much cheaper for teams, and definitely doesn't have the same scare factor that FRC does in both time and money. From experience, VRC competitions are also much easier to manage and run than FRC competitions are. It is much easier for schools, students, and mentors to jump in and do well in VRC because VEX's building equipment is a lot more simple to put together for someone without experience than FRC is.

However, VRC just doesn't have the same wow factor in my opinion. Something that makes FRC the spectacle it is is the arena factor of the competition. FRC has much more of the sport feeling to it than VRC does, which feels much more like a hobbyist competition to me than FRC does. I think the six-week challenge for FRC teams makes it much more of an interesting challenge than VRC is, and in FRC you get much more difference in design than VRC due to the time teams have to work on the robot.

I know, personally, I would not want to continue in VRC because as a mentor, I just do not enjoy the competitions and challenge as much as I do the FRC challenge. Something about the six week build time and the size of the competitions just makes the time needed to compete well more worth it than what I experienced as a student in VRC.

Overall, I think the problem with FRC is that it is not easy to jump into as VRC is. Although I personally prefer FRC, I would suggest VRC as a robotics competition for a new school/team. I think if FRC wants to continue to grow and wants to continue to be more available, both funds and the learning curve to FRC needs to be addressed if it still wants to be the main high school robotics competition.

[gblake]

As an exercise, what are some specific reasons why you would want to keep your FRC program? Why do you do FRC given the alternatives?

This line of reasoning continues to perplex me.
In VRC (and other programs), students are explicitly expected or encouraged to work with mentors to do:

• Video,
• Web Design,
• CAD,
• CAM,
• Machining,
• Welding,
• Journalism,
• Rapid Prototyping,
• Public Speaking,
• etc.

Where is the notion that they aren't supposed to do these things, or aren't rewarded if they do these things, coming from?

And, even if the program didn't encourage all of those activities (and more), why-o-why would anyone who wanted to do them feel that the program(s) in any way discouraged them from doing it?

It is possible in FRC to 100% avoid/ignore all of the activities in that list. It is possible in VRC (and other programs) to 100% embrace & enjoy all of those activities.

In my mind, FRC holds your hand (and pulls you) a bit more; while VRC opens the door (and invites you to walk through).

There is a difference, but nothing stops a group from using either program as a springboard and "going" as far as they like.

In some ways, because you can build, modify, and operate several simple VEX robots for the price of one FRC robot, experimenting with VEX robots opens more doors (cooperative behaviors, intramural contests, etc.) than experimenting with highly specialized FRC robots can open.

On the other hand, because FRC bots are bigger, they can enable some valuable real-world experiments and demos/attractions that a pure VRC bot (built from the VEX EDR parts used in VRC) can't.

Blake