Need a good table top scrolling CNC!

[Fusion_Clint]

Originally Posted by JohnFogarty

Is this Velox router any good?

http://www.veloxcncrouters.com/#!36w/c1xeg

Yes, but I suggest upgrading from the router to a spindle so that you can adjust the speed of your cutting tool.

Also it depends on the table you mount (not place) it on, make or buy a real sturdy table and it will be fine.

We absolutely love our VR50X50 with the HSD 3 HP spindle.

[mman1506]

Originally Posted by RoboChair

I believe you can get the Velox with a water cooled spindle, but it's way overkill. You would have to be running the machine like a production shop before it would be worth considering. Only thing it really makes easier is changing spindle speeds with the G-code and overrides from the Mach3 controller program.

I'd disagree. The water cooled spindle has less run out than the router. When your working with small end mills at a high RPM it can make a big difference with how fast your feeds are and tool wear. I've run machines with both and I definitely prefer the proper spindle.

Edit: The water cooled spindles are also much much quieter.

[Fusion_Clint]

Originally Posted by mman1506

I'd disagree. The water cooled spindle has less run out than the router. When your working with small end mills at a high RPM it can make a big difference with how fast your feeds are and tool wear. I've run machines with both and I definitely prefer the proper spindle.

Edit: The water cooled spindles are also much much quieter.

How does that compare to a non-water cooled spindle like the HSD 3HP we have?

[mman1506]

Originally Posted by Fusion_Clint

How does that compare to a non-water cooled spindle like the HSD 3HP we have?

Same goes for the HSD, generally any spindle designed for CNC machining with a ER collet will be superior to a re purposed wood router.

We also have a fan cooled HSD spindle on our router that I love.

If your buying a spindle I'd highly recommend getting one that's water cooled or uses a fan that's not coupled directly to the spindle motor(HSD's are usually setup like this). They are waaay quieter.

[Mark Sheridan]

Originally Posted by RoboChair

I believe you can get the Velox with a water cooled spindle, but it's way overkill. You would have to be running the machine like a production shop before it would be worth considering. Only thing it really makes easier is changing spindle speeds with the G-code and overrides from the Mach3 controller program.

I agree with Devin, you can do a lot with the velox router. We have the same Velox and love it. We don't have access to a 220 volt line so hence the router. If you don't have the money for the spindle or adding an new 220 volt line, don't sweat it, the router will do fine.

If we ever get enough space, maybe a second one with a spindle will be what we get but for now, we are very happy with our purchase.

[mman1506]

865 has a 60x60 XZero Demon CNC Router with a HSD spindle.
Here's a video of it in action

All in it was about $10k CDN which was a killer deal considering the quality.


Some advantages of it over the Velox and other CNC routers near its price point (and things to look out for when buying a CNC router):

Ballscrews - The Velox has ACME screws that are inferior in every way besides cost. It's not uncommon to lose over 50% of your stepper motor's power due to friction when using acme screws. The anti backlash nuts also wear quickly and become imprecise.

Linear guideways - Most budget CNC's use circular linear rails which are significantly less rigid. I'd stay away from any machine using bushing on it's linear rails.

A "real" spindle - The re purposed wood routers on many CNC's were not designed for CNC machining and may have a large amount of runout. While they may be equipped with speed control they quickly loose torque at lower RPM's.

That's not to say that the Velox and other budget CNCs are bad. The Velox looks like an awesome out of the box option for teams. It took us a whole season just to get our CNC setup and it's still not 100% done. In my opinion the most important part of any CNC machine is having someone who knows how to operate it. Things like fixturing, CAM, feeds and speeds can be difficult to learn. Our team has access to 5 CNC machines (2 mills, 2 routers, 1 lathe) and we still rely on laser cutting sponsors to do the majority of our machining due to a limited amount of experienced CNC machinists and time constraints.

[mman1506]

Originally Posted by Mark Sheridan

I agree with Devin, you can do a lot with the velox router. We have the same Velox and love it. We don't have access to a 220 volt line so hence the router. If you don't have the money for the spindle or adding an new 220 volt line, don't sweat it, the router will do fine.

If we ever get enough space, maybe a second one with a spindle will be what we get but for now, we are very happy with our purchase.

You can purchase VFD's the convert single phase 110v to 3 phase 220v like this one

[RoboChair]

Originally Posted by mman1506

I'd disagree. The water cooled spindle has less run out than the router. Edit: The water cooled spindles are also much much quieter.

Originally Posted by mman1506

A "real" spindle - The re purposed wood routers on many CNC's were not designed for CNC machining and may have a large amount of runout. While they may be equipped with speed control they quickly loose torque at lower RPM's.

While generally yes a normal router has more runout, Velox has a special spindle collet(looks like an ER collet) that eliminates most of the runout issues. It is louder and the torque can be an issue, I will agree with that. If you really want a proper spindle, buy one from China for 200-300 dollars separate from who you get the machine from(we will probably be doing this for next year).

[falconmaster]

Originally Posted by JohnFogarty

Is this Velox router any good?

http://www.veloxcncrouters.com/#!36w/c1xeg

We are evaluating that question right now. Its the repeat ability we are looking into between the two machines and the face that one weighs more and may be more rigid resulting in better accuracy.....

[techhelpbb]

Also ShopBot is good to consider.

[JohnFogarty]

Originally Posted by techhelpbb

Also ShopBot is good to consider.

Which one, specifically?

[Mulcahy]

987 has used a shopbot bt-32 (the cheap one!) since 2013. Its great for fast prototypes in aluminum, MDF and plastic. As far as accuracy goes, it is not accurate enough to make transmissions and gearboxes, but can make anything that can take a tolerance of 0.010". A part that would take all day on a 3d printer, can be made in a few minutes on a shopbot and will be much stronger. Ours has a standard wood router spindle, which has been able to cut 1" aluminum, but I would recommend keeping it under 1/4" for most aluminum parts. We have had success with plastics and wood up to 3" thick.

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by JohnFogarty

Which one, specifically?

PRStandard with HSD spindle is around the sub-$15k range.

[Frank Neuperger]

I am helping Falcon robotics through the machine selection process.

Can the owners of both the velox and the Laguna, share with us the "typical" repeatability and accuracy that you have been able to get from your machines. i.e. have you put a dial indicator on the machine and tried to return to a point with each axis? How close can you get when you return?

Is anyone making aluminum transmission side plates with their CNC router. what kind of bearing hole diameter tolerance are you holding? How about center to center hole tolerances over say a 3" to 6" span.

What is the linear bearing rail diameter on both Laguna and velox on X and Y axis. This could help rationalize machine stiffness questions.

The 2 x 3 Laguna at 425 lbs with ball screws and water cooled spindle claims 0.002" repeatability.

The 4 x 4 Velox at 300 lbs with lead screws and router head claims 0.001" repeatability.

Would you not expect the repeatability to be better on the Laguna?

Velox will not share typical repeatability test results. I have not asked Laguna yet for repeatability data.

Also found out that Velox uses 2 NEMA 34 950 oz-in steppers for lower axis (Y) and single NEMA 34 on X axis. Velox uses 400 oz-in NEMA 23 on z axis.

Laguna uses single NEMA 23 on each of the 3 axis.

So Velox seems better on the motor torque and resultant effective stiffness in the drive train. Laguna has more mass and possibly structural stiffness. Why is the Velox repeatabilty claim twice as good.

Looking forward to data from anyone that has tested their machine.

[falconmaster]

Thanks Frank! Yes if anyone can answer Franks questions that would be great!