Anonymous/Burner Accounts and CD Etiquette

[Hallry]

Originally Posted by Ed Law

I agree with you that in some situations there is a need on CD to allow people to post anonymously.

Maybe it's time to bring back FIRST-A-Holics Anonymous.

[gblake]

I realize that I'm trying to sweep back the ocean, but ...

I think it would be a good idea for people, in general, to stop worrying about the team someone is on when discussing anything, anywhere, unless the explicit topic being discussed is that person's team.

I know that there is a big, deep, and broad pool of sentiment that connects what individuals do to to observers' opinions about the entire team that *happens* to include that individual; but please; teams rarely get to choose their members, and teams with non-trivial membership rolls are going to be full of diverse attitudes about plenty of boring and exciting subjects.

If, in general, we spent more time discouraging a mindset of forming judgments about "teams", instead of "individuals", and invested less mental energy in viewing teams as mono-cultures (or in pushing them to be mono-cultures), I think this thread's topic would lose an important bit of urgency.

Blake

[Kevin Leonard]

Originally Posted by Hallry

Maybe it's time to bring back FIRST-A-Holics Anonymous.

I think part of the problem is that the people who would come to this board for those purposes of posting anonymously don't know that these tools exist. I don't even know about all the sub-forums and such this site has.

[jtrv]

Is this about the other instituationalization thread? If not, disregard this post.

But the guy didn't use a throwaway to hide his opinion from his name. He used a throwaway to prevent the team's image from being hurt. There is a big difference.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by gblake

I realize that I'm trying to sweep back the ocean, but ...

I think it would be a good idea for people, in general, to stop worrying about the team someone is on when discussing anything, anywhere, unless the explicit topic being discussed is that person's team.

I know that there is a big, deep, and broad pool of sentiment that connects what individuals do to to observers' opinions about the entire team that *happens* to include that individual; but please; teams rarely get to choose their members, and teams with non-trivial membership rolls are going to be full of diverse attitudes about plenty of boring and exciting subjects.

If, in general, we spent more time discouraging a mindset of forming judgments about "teams", instead of "individuals", and invested less mental energy in viewing teams as mono-cultures (or in pushing them to be mono-cultures), I think this thread's topic would lose an important bit of urgency.

Blake

I can tell you that, with only a few exceptions (generally, people I know and interact with regularly at events), I have no idea what team anyone is on here on CD, and I rarely look at the team number unless it's specifically relevant to the thread in question (most often if the location in the top right of a post indicates Minnesota and I want to see which event the team is going to or how close they are to me so I can get them appropriate help).

I would actually support "burying" the team number a bit - put it in the individual's profile instead of at the top of every post. That way if I care, I can click on to the profile and find it but it's not right out there for me to are on every post.

[Sperkowsky]

Originally Posted by gblake

I realize that I'm trying to sweep back the ocean, but ...

I think it would be a good idea for people, in general, to stop worrying about the team someone is on when discussing anything, anywhere, unless the explicit topic being discussed is that person's team.

I know that there is a big, deep, and broad pool of sentiment that connects what individuals do to to observers' opinions about the entire team that *happens* to include that individual; but please; teams rarely get to choose their members, and teams with non-trivial membership rolls are going to be full of diverse attitudes about plenty of boring and exciting subjects.

If, in general, we spent more time discouraging a mindset of forming judgments about "teams", instead of "individuals", and invested less mental energy in viewing teams as mono-cultures (or in pushing them to be mono-cultures), I think this thread's topic would lose an important bit of urgency.

Blake

Very well said.

However, in life you will always represent your 'team'.

Say for instance I work for Nasa. If I go on a message board with "Nasa engineer" in my bio whatever I do will reflect the company. Or, if I wear my Nasa uniform and rob a bank. Guess what Nasa looks very bad.

The bottom line is your actions usually do not just reflect upon yourself. Its definitely something I struggle with time to time.

[TheModMaster8]

Originally Posted by roboruler

I don’t think that is always true, but it is a definitely a good indicator if what you are saying is not appropriate.

Despite what people say: “My views do not reflect those of my team” people use the material they are fed, to create an image of a particular team. If you have an opinion which is different to other peoples, for example about Paper Airplane throwing ( pretty minor in the scheme of things, but people still have different opinions on it) or especially issues such as LGBT+ in FIRST you are entitled to say it and isn’t inappropriate, but these opinions still form how people view your team.

The most important thing about giving your opinion is how you do it, it is alright to voice your opinion as long as you are respectful of other people and their views and give reasoning for your opinion. If someone else questions why you think that reply respectfully or PM them ( still being respectful) to stop a thread becoming an argument. If you’re not capable of expressing your views, respectfully and nicely don’t.

I feel like the paper airplane state was directed towards me

[BrennanB]

Originally Posted by gblake

I realize that I'm trying to sweep back the ocean, but ...

I think it would be a good idea for people, in general, to stop worrying about the team someone is on when discussing anything, anywhere, unless the explicit topic being discussed is that person's team.

I know that there is a big, deep, and broad pool of sentiment that connects what individuals do to to observers' opinions about the entire team that *happens* to include that individual; but please; teams rarely get to choose their members, and teams with non-trivial membership rolls are going to be full of diverse attitudes about plenty of boring and exciting subjects.

If, in general, we spent more time discouraging a mindset of forming judgments about "teams", instead of "individuals", and invested less mental energy in viewing teams as mono-cultures (or in pushing them to be mono-cultures), I think this thread's topic would lose an important bit of urgency.

Blake

I think it's less about knowing what team they are from and more about the acc username. And when I see "throwaway" or "anonymous" with a location of "nowhere" posting controversial statements I guess that's when I start to question the content of the post.

It's not like people instantly look at your team number first when they read the content, it of course is the content that they read first. If it is a well thought out post I tend to look at the team that had the insightful commentary just purely as a interesting to know fact. Same for a less than stellar post.

For people who don't want to "protect their team" by not giving their team a bad rep because they post something that may be severely uninformed, and lets be honest actually about this for a second... It's really not that bad when you post controversial things. People do it every day, highly regarded mentors and people that you have never heard of. It's only really bad when you post something colossally incorrect/stupid that people tend to jump on the hating bandwagon (from my point of view). Sure a few people may disagree with you if you say something controversial, but I think the real backlash that people are afraid of is on a much grander scale.

Anyways back to the point. If you are worried about attaching your name to a post, ask yourself if you really should be posting that/is this the right way to express your feelings.

[mrnoble]

I'm just glad that we have a forum in which anonymity and nastiness is the exception rather than the norm.

As a side note, many of the anonymous posts I've seen have been asking for advice about team dynamics. It is very difficult to give useful advice on such things in this forum, because we are generally only getting only one side of a multifaceted situation. It becomes that much more difficult when there is no context whatsoever, with anonymous postings.

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by gblake

I realize that I'm trying to sweep back the ocean, but ...

I think it would be a good idea for people, in general, to stop worrying about the team someone is on when discussing anything, anywhere, unless the explicit topic being discussed is that person's team.
...

Agreed completely.
I own quite a few forums on the Internet.
I have many...many...troll hunts on those forums.
If it's not me doing the hunting, it's a moderator or software.

I have a policy of not hiding who I am.
It can make me a target.
Team 11 has gotten requests to basically shut me up in the past for topics that they have nothing to do with.
(Needless to say I don't like being a target in FRC but FRC is literally kids stuff compared to some of the stuff I've help shut down outside of FRC where things can actually get dangerous.)

I tell Team 11 what I say here again: if we can't tolerate this diversity we have a problem. On the other side I try not to commit the team's resources; as I often can be out voted on the commitment of those resources.

[frcguy]

Originally Posted by mrnoble

As a side note, many of the anonymous posts I've seen have been asking for advice about team dynamics. It is very difficult to give useful advice on such things in this forum, because we are generally only getting only one side of a multifaceted situation. It becomes that much more difficult when there is no context whatsoever, with anonymous postings.

I agree with this to some extent. Although, it is important to recognize that the poster is trying to strike a difficult balance between anonymity and descriptiveness. As I mentioned earlier, the threat of internal repercussions inside the team for posting is very real to the people asking for help. Giving away more details and information, while helpful to us, may strip that person of their anonymity to a reader that is involved in the situation.

[mrnoble]

Originally Posted by frcguy

I agree with this to some extent. Although, it is important to recognize that the poster is trying to strike a difficult balance between anonymity and descriptiveness. As I mentioned earlier, the threat of internal repercussions inside the team for posting is very real to the people asking for help. Giving away more details and information, while helpful to us, may strip that person of their anonymity to a reader that is involved in the situation.

Your right of course. My point is that folks shouldn't raise their hopes very high of finding solutions to those types of problems here. I don't know how to fix this, but anonymous accusations that mentor/teacher/parent/school administrator/captain/team member X is destroying the program aren't going to be solved by airing it here, anonymously or otherwise.

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by mrnoble

Your right of course. My point is that folks shouldn't raise their hopes very high of finding solutions to those types of problems here. I don't know how to fix this, but anonymous accusations that mentor/teacher/parent/school administrator/captain/team member X is destroying the program aren't going to be solved by airing it here, anonymously or otherwise.

It's a vent. Though I sometimes worry when students engage in this kind of frustration vent that they intend to solve all their personal issues like this.

Some things are better solved without being on the Internet forever.

[gblake]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

Very well said.

However, in life you will always represent your 'team'.

Say for instance I work for Nasa. If I go on a message board with "Nasa engineer" in my bio whatever I do will reflect the company. Or, if I wear my Nasa uniform and rob a bank. Guess what Nasa looks very bad.

The bottom line is your actions usually do not just reflect upon yourself. Its definitely something I struggle with time to time.

Thanks for the compliment, but I will respectfully disagree.

No you don't represent them just because you are wearing a shirt. Observers might choose to decide you represent them, but the fact of the matter is that you don't. More broadly, John and Jane Doe aren't authorized to represent the totality (or whatever is the right term) of every organization that they belong to.

If I put on a NASA shirt to rob a bank, am I representing NASA? No, I'm a bank robber who is wearing a NASA shirt.

I'l bet you a vary large amount that if you name an obnoxious, vile, or despicable sentiment, attitude, or behavior; that at least 9 out of 10 times you can find someone employed by NASA who believes or does it. Do they represent NASA, no, unless ..... I decide to let them represent NASA in my own mind.

Again, I realize that I am trying to sweep back the ocean; but it would nice if observers would put more effort into deciding not to let individuals become the representation of groups.

Acknowledging that it does happen is one thing. Saying that it *should* happen is another. Saying that we expect it from each other, and reinforcing and/or rewarding that expectation, is being lazy.

Turning down the "you always represent your team" mantra would lower the impetus to create anonymous accounts in some discussions.

YMMV
Blake

[pipsqueaker]

Originally Posted by mrnoble

As a side note, many of the anonymous posts I've seenve been asking for advice about team dynamics. It is very difficult to give useful advice on such things in this forum, because we are generally only getting only one side of a multifaceted situation. It becomes that much more difficult when there is no context whatsoever, with anonymous postings.

Speaking as part of team that's had some internal issues in the past, I completely understand the impulse to post anonymously. Put frankly, it would be embarrassing to come out and say, for example, "On team 1124 the mentors have taken over and are doing all the work." And there could certainly be repercussions from the team. In that situation, why would you want to expose yourself by posting under an an account people could use to identify you?

In any case, what would you do with their team number if they revealed it? Objectively speaking, you probably have no real knowledge of your team anyways, and people in those threads are often willing to give you any extra info you need