F4 - Connect (The new way to get help)

[Sperkowsky]

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe

Just because it can help doesn't mean it can't also hurt. That's the problem.

When anyone provides advice is can be good or bad. There are bad doctors that can do harm. But, no one is saying we should get rid of doctors because one of them gave bad information.

Although that is a stretch the general gist is we will do our best to provide anyone (Not limited to students) help. We do not yet know who will use this service. We do not know how it will be utilized but, we want to atleast give this concept a try.

[saikiranra]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

When anyone provides advice is can be good or bad. There are bad doctors that can do harm. But, no one is saying we should get rid of doctors because one of them gave bad information.

The appropriate analogy here is only asking a group of pre-med students medical advice. Sure, there are many pre-med students that might know the right thing to do, but sometimes they don't have the experience to handle some situations that seasoned doctors may have the best advice for. This is even more true in a peer reviewed medical journal where knowledge is vetted by multiple sources before being distributed.

I think the issue that people have here has to do with transparency and review. If you could figure out a way to give that, the community might be more supportive of your efforts.

[Sperkowsky]

Originally Posted by saikiranra

The appropriate analogy here is only asking a group of pre-med students medical advice. Sure, there are many pre-med students that might know the right thing to do, but sometimes they don't have the experience to handle some situations that seasoned doctors may have the best advice for. This is even more true in a peer reviewed medical journal where knowledge is vetted by multiple sources before being distributed.

I think the issue that people have here has to do with transparency and review. If you could figure out a way to give that, the community might be more supportive of your efforts.

If people ask a question and say the word (transparent) at the end of their question we would gladly publicize it here to alleviate some concerns.

For the normal user we have to keep it behind closed doors because that is the entire premise behind the service.

[Alyssa]

Even just the title of this thread "(The new way to get help)" makes you sound like you're trying to replace mentors...

[Knufire]

I could see this being useful for personal related matters, such as questions on how to balance robotics and social lives. Yes, many of us on CD have experience with that but there are always nuances with the current class of students (is that what the youngin's do nowadays?) that advice from a fellow peer may have insight that a mentor's could not.

However, with anything technical, I share the many concerns that have already been posted in this thread. And frankly, I feel like most of the questions (being a robotics competition and all) are going to end up being technical.

[FarmerJohn]

I fully support this idea. This is the functional equivalent of starting a school taught by your classmates, and I love it. I'm sure it'll be a lot more enjoyable, you'll build new relationships with peers, and if you have any trouble, just ask the expert who is halfway through the introductory course. I'm sure they'll know how to teach you the material. "Experience" is overrated, especially from adults in a STUDENT program. What matters most is that a fellow student provides the help, regardless of what potential negative outcomes may be.

(EDIT: /s)

[Starke]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

When anyone provides advice is can be good or bad. There are bad doctors that can do harm. But, no one is saying we should get rid of doctors because one of them gave bad information.

Although that is a stretch the general gist is we will do our best to provide anyone (Not limited to students) help. We do not yet know who will use this service. We do not know how it will be utilized but, we want to atleast give this concept a try.

I am not trying to derail the thread, only voice an concerned opinion and provide good advice. From a teacher's perspective, I am concerned that the students like Sam and Smiti are posting numerous times during a typical school day. Sam, for example, has posted on CD 10 times today since 9 AM this morning.

This forum will only add more things to check and respond to. Especially during the off-season, make sure to make school your priority over anything else.

[Sperkowsky]

Originally Posted by Starke

I am not trying to derail the thread, only voice an concerned opinion and provide good advice. From a teacher's perspective, I am concerned that the students like Sam and Smiti are posting numerous times during a typical school day. Sam, for example, has posted on CD 10 times today since 9 AM this morning.

This forum will only add more things to check and respond to. Especially during the off-season, make sure to make school your priority over anything else.

AP's are over so most of our classes are free periods. Although, I am guilty of prioritizing robotics over school at times.

[Ben Martin]

Originally Posted by Pauline Tasci

Having an outlet where your question doesn't only benefit yourself but benefits everyone who reads it is worth it.

True, but that doesn't devalue what F4 is doing. Everything you post publicly online could be perceived in any way by anybody, which can freak the hell out of a large portion of the introverted FRC population, students and mentors alike. And as much as everyone says they should just PM the mentors with high rep, that can be incredibly intimidating as well, as you're putting your name and your team's name up for judgement with a prominent member of the community.

People are averse to letting other people know that they need help, and sometimes they would rather suffer through it than let others know. Sending a question to a form where others don't get to see your post might be more attractive for someone who wouldn't have otherwise reached out to anyone.



For the people concerned with trusting the information--I wouldn't say the advice could be incorrect just because they're students. Reserve judgement until you see the outcome, nobody has been hurt.

[Knufire]

Originally Posted by FarmerJohn

I fully support this idea. This is the functional equivalent of starting a school taught by your classmates, and I love it. I'm sure it'll be a lot more enjoyable, you'll build new relationships with peers, and if you have any trouble, just ask the expert who is halfway through the introductory course. I'm sure they'll know how to teach you the material. "Experience" is overrated, especially from adults in a STUDENT program. What matters most is that a fellow student provides the help, regardless of what potential negative outcomes may be.

See below.

Originally Posted by http://www.firstinspires.org/about/vision-and-mission

Mission
The mission of FIRST is to inspire young people to be science and technology leaders, by engaging them in exciting Mentor-based programs that build science, engineering, and technology skills, that inspire innovation, and that foster well-rounded life capabilities including self-confidence, communication, and leadership.

[notmattlythgoe]

Originally Posted by Ben Martin

True, but that doesn't devalue what F4 is doing. Everything you post publicly online could be perceived in any way by anybody, which can freak the hell out of a large portion of the introverted FRC population, students and mentors alike. And as much as everyone says they should just PM the mentors with high rep, that can be incredibly intimidating as well, as you're putting your name and your team's name up for judgement with a prominent member of the community.

People are averse to letting other people know that they need help, and sometimes they would rather suffer through it than let others know. Sending a question to a form where others don't get to see your post might be more attractive for someone who wouldn't have otherwise reached out to anyone.



For the people concerned with trusting the information--I wouldn't say the advice could be incorrect just because they're students. Reserve judgement until you see the outcome, nobody has been hurt.

If the whole point is to give an anonymous and private place to ask questions, why are mentors not on the answering committee? Why is this a student experience only resource? There are many many mentors that have lived through most of the different scenarios that could come up in this resource, why is their experience not wanted?

[Sperkowsky]

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe

If the whole point is to give an anonymous and private place to ask questions, why are mentors not on the answering committee? Why is this a student experience only resource? There are many many mentors that have lived through most of the different scenarios that could come up in this resource, why is their experience not wanted?

This same concept could have been started by a different group/person. Currently our group is students only and we want to keep it that way. Its not that mentors experience is not wanted it just happens to be that we are a student only community.

[FarmerJohn]

Originally Posted by Ben Martin

Reserve judgement until you see the outcome, nobody has been hurt.

But I'm not confident nobody will get hurt. I don't fear a program run by students, I fear a student receiving inexperienced information and something bad happening because of that. Maybe some bad design advice causes a robot failure that ends that student's season early. Maybe some less than mature points of view could lead a student to leaving the program, or getting kicked off their team. That's what I'm afraid of.

[Ben Martin]

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe

If the whole point is to give an anonymous and private place to ask questions, why are mentors not on the answering committee? Why is this a student experience only resource? There are many many mentors that have lived through most of the different scenarios that could come up in this resource, why is their experience not wanted?

It would be nice if this resource did exist, akin to the Rose-Hulman Homework Hotline that uses college students.

However, somebody has to set it up and manage it. That's a lot of work.

My libertarian belief here -- don't shut down someone who isn't hurting you. If they want to do it this way, let them do it, as they are the ones actually putting in the work. It is everyone's choice to use it or not use it.

[Knufire]

Originally Posted by Ben Martin

It would be nice if this resource did exist, akin to the Rose-Hulman Homework Hotline that uses college students.

Just want to mention that being a Homework Hotline tutor is a work-study (paid) position; students aren't voluntarily doing this out of the good of their heart.

Also, I think a big reason Homework Hotline works is simply because the people answering the questions have already proved that they have a level of competence (by gaining acceptance into the university) with the subject matter (which is limited to high school level math and science questions).

A better analogy was if Homework Hotline was run by AP-level high school students instead of college students. Could it still work? Very much yes. Is there a bit more risk? I would say so.

To reiterate my opinion on this, I definitely think there's value in having this service for non-technical matters. However, there's just simply better resources out there for robot advice.