[FRC Blog] The Woodie Flowers Award and Two FRC Championships

[Madison]

The competition is a game with rules and a score. It's objectively possible to be the best at that, so I get why some are upset that there will be two sets of "champions" at the end of each season.

The WFA doesn't, objectively, name one mentor as the best or anything. It's a recognition of their great work, but it doesn't do that by diminishing the work of others. I don't think it would be strange for two individuals to receive that honor.

Besides, they'll give a WFFA award to just about anyone these days*, so what's one more?

*Relax. I'm poking fun at myself.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by Madison

The competition is a game with rules and a score. It's objectively possible to be the best at that, so I get why some are upset that there will be two sets of "champions" at the end of each season.

The WFA doesn't, objectively, name one mentor as the best or anything. It's a recognition of their great work, but it doesn't do that by diminishing the work of others. I don't think it would be strange for two individuals to receive that honor.

Besides, they'll give a WFFA award to just about anyone these days*, so what's one more?

*Relax. I'm poking fun at myself.

I don't think it would be terrible to give the award to two individuals (lord knows there are enough outstanding mentors out there that deserve it!)... but you still have a question of logistics. What happens if they look through all the essays and say "These two are the top of the pile", then realize both of those individuals are going to be at the same champs? I definitely don't want to diminish anyone's contributions, but would you give the award to one person, knowing that there's someone else that maybe deserves it a little bit more but happens to be going to the "wrong" championships that year? I think sticking with one winner is the best route, and announcing it at whichever event they are at (preferable), or their team's home event if they don't attend champs.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

I definitely don't want to diminish anyone's contributions, but would you give the award to one person, knowing that there's someone else that maybe deserves it a little bit more but happens to be going to the "wrong" championships that year?

This is exactly the same as two deserving candidates having submitted for the same regional, or being in the same district. I don't see why this is an issue here but not at regionals or districts across the country.

[Mitchell1714]

With WFA being awarded to a single person, I am confused why they would not award the Chariman's award to a single team.

[bkahl]

Originally Posted by Mitchell1714

With WFA being awarded to a single person, I am confused why they would not award the Chariman's award to a single team.

The Woodie Flowers Award in its entirety (from finalist to winner) is mostly driven by the winners of the award. It may be likely they were Given the opportunity to discuss with FIRST, or even given final choice, on how many people received the final 'winner' title each year. ((There are a number of WFA Winners here, maybe they can provide more insight?))

It may have been different in the case of the CCA. I would be interested to know how involved the current Hall of Fame was involved in the CCA discussion. Has that already been revealed? Can someone from the HoF comment?

[Chief Hedgehog]

Originally Posted by Madison

The WFA doesn't, objectively, name one mentor as the best or anything. It's a recognition of their great work, but it doesn't do that by diminishing the work of others. I don't think it would be strange for two individuals to receive that honor.

This.

We are going to split the Champs, Split the Chairman's... WFA? No... better not do that. Seems kind of weird.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Chief Hedgehog

This.

We are going to split the Champs, Split the Chairman's... WFA? No... better not do that. Seems kind of weird.

The WFA, as I understand, is an award endorsed by FIRST but not regulated by FIRST. It's not contradictory in that light.

[escime]

Speaking solely for myself, I think it would be helpful to remind everyone at this point that the key point from the WFA perspective is that teams at championships (single or plural) are not competing for the WFA. In fact, there is no relationship between which teams are at championships and who receives the WFA. This is fundamentally different than a regional or a district event where the teams with nominees are all present. Not having a District Championship WFFA winner at the District Championship event will no doubt happen soon and when it does, there will be a WFFA ceremony without the recipient present. When the same thing happens at World Championships, it will be no different than what will be happening at District Championship events around the country. So whether or not the awardee will be at the event cannot be the basis for how the recipient is selected. The idea that the awardee will always be present to receive the award was destined to end no matter what.

Having a single WFA across two World Championships is also consistent with having a single WFFA at a District Championship. WFFAs are not given out at each district event. Because the WFA selection process is very different than the Chairman's award where all the teams competing for that award are at the event and interviewed by the judges, the WFA selection process (which gets to see all the nominees across all the events simultaneously) doesn't depend on the number of Championship events. Therefore, just as single WFFA is awarded at a District Championship, the decision was made to award a single WFA across all World Championship events.

I hope that these additional comments help to clarify how the single WFA decision came about.

[Ginger Power]

The Woodie Flowers Award is one of the few things that I wouldn't mind being split... so many mentors that have so much time into the program. There's no way we can honor them all, but this seems to be a missed opportunity to honor more of them.

[jwfoss]

Originally Posted by Justin Montois

"The WFA and WFFA are deeply cherished by all those honored to have been so recognized and the WFAs look forward to maintaining the singular nature of the Woodie Flowers Award..."

This seems to be in line with how the WFFA has been handled in the districts vs. the Chairman's award. While I agree with a single WFA winner for each year even with 2Champs, I still disagree with having only one WFFA per district while their are four Chairman's Awards (at least here in NE). With more areas moving to districts the number of WFFA winners will continue to decrease.

[Jay O'Donnell]

Originally Posted by jwfoss

This seems to be in line with how the WFFA has been handled in the districts vs. the Chairman's award. While I agree with a single WFA winner for each year even with 2Champs, I still disagree with having only one WFFA per district while their are four Chairman's Awards (at least here in NE). With more areas moving to districts the number of WFFA winners will continue to decrease.

While I agree with not liking only having one WFFA per district, maybe there's a good reason behind it. Perhaps they want to cut down on the number of submissions they have to read for WFA, since it builds on itself every year?

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by Jay O'Donnell

While I agree with not liking only having one WFFA per district, maybe there's a good reason behind it. Perhaps they want to cut down on the number of submissions they have to read for WFA, since it builds on itself every year?

I don't like it either, but at Champs Woodie told us the insane number of essays they had to read through this year... It's a lot of work for the past WFA winners to get through all of that. Personally, I would prefer to see another tier added for district events instead - recognize one semi-finalist at each district event with a paper certificate, then the semifinalists are the ones that are up at the district championships, with one finalist picked from among them. It's a little more work for the WFA winners to read through those each week, but reduces the load during week 7. It would allow for a little more recognition without dramatically increasing the judging load.

[jwfoss]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

I don't like it either, but at Champs Woodie told us the insane number of essays they had to read through this year... It's a lot of work for the past WFA winners to get through all of that. Personally, I would prefer to see another tier added for district events instead - recognize one semi-finalist at each district event with a paper certificate, then the semifinalists are the ones that are up at the district championships, with one finalist picked from among them. It's a little more work for the WFA winners to read through those each week, but reduces the load during week 7. It would allow for a little more recognition without dramatically increasing the judging load.

Call it a DWFFA and it seems like a good plan to me, perhaps have the districts do this first pass judging and the WFA do the upper level judging?

[Michael Corsetto]

Question:

Which is more important?

1. Keeping the WFFA and WFA awards "exclusive" and "singular" in nature

OR

2. Recognizing and celebrating one accomplished mentor at every FRC event

I'll throw my hat in the ring that option #2 is FAR more important.

This decision, and the decision to only give out WFFA's at the DCMP level, gives me the impression that the WFAs are holding on to a failing architecture that cannot adequately recognize deserving mentors. I really dislike split champs, but I dislike split champs without a WFA even more.

The "prestige" of the award does not merit excluding many events from celebrating a deserving mentor.

-Mike

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto

Question:

Which is more important?

1. Keeping the WFFA and WFA awards "exclusive" and "singular" in nature

OR

2. Recognizing and celebrating one accomplished mentor at every FRC event

I'll throw my hat in the ring that option #2 is FAR more important.

This decision, and the decision to only give out WFFA's at the DCMP level, gives me the impression that the WFAs are holding on to a failing architecture that cannot adequately recognize deserving mentors. I really dislike split champs, but I dislike split champs without a WFA even more.

The "prestige" of the award does not merit excluding many events from celebrating a deserving mentor.

-Mike

While I hate half champs almost as much as you do, and I think I agree with you on this, the arguments you've made for the WFA could be applied to Chairman's, the robotics competition, or half champs as a whole.