[FRC Blog] Radio Silence

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

I would say it's a top priority for our use... but for a vast majority of use cases, a boot time of 30 seconds versus one of 90 really doesn't make that much of a difference. When you're sitting at home and the power goes out and comes back, do you sit on your couch complaining that your home wifi router takes too long to reboot? And even if you do, does it happen often enough for boot time to be something you actively look for when picking your next router? Companies making routers know that most of the consumer base they're trying to attract won't really be impacted much by the boot time, and instead are looking for things those users do want - small size, strong signal, easy to set up, a nice UI, good security, customizability, etc. So all of that gets prioritized over boot time.

Besides, if it had amazing fast boot time, the engineers working on it wouldn't have any more excuses.

I meant a top engineering priority for FRC's engineers, not for the people that make routers for home use. When testing routers, a greater focus should be placed on boot time. There certainly are fast booting routers out there, though it's possible they are unsuitable for FRC for other reasons.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by tjf

The main problem, for me at least, is that the radio takes 90 seconds to boot... If they're working together on a custom FRC firmware why not make one that just boots faster and disabled unneeded features?

I don't think I ever saw one take more than 60 seconds. 45-50 seconds was more typical. The rest of the delay some people are noticing is from the Driver Station sometimes taking upwards of 20 seconds to establish communication once the network connection is there. That appears to be a Windows networking thing.


It's my understanding that the bulk of the OM5-AP bootup time is in loading and initializing the built-in web server interface to the device settings. If that were removed from the firmware package, it could probably boot in less than 30 seconds. It would also take away a lot of flexibility for teams to tweak their network setup.

Given a couple of years with the same radio, I expect that the bootup time could be drastically slashed while providing teams with the appropriate tools to configure the device. That's probably not going to happen this year, though.

[Thad House]

One thing I wonder is that if when you configure the radio for field use, maybe the web dash could be disabled. There's no way anyway into the radio after it's been programmed without resetting it, so in competition mode that most likely would not be an issue. Especially as the firmware programmer and team flasher would work anyway without the dashboard.

[RyanN]

Originally Posted by JohnFogarty

+1

+9001

mDNS seemed to be finicky on this access port as well.

[GeeTwo]

Originally Posted by Conor Ryan

I hope the new radios get a back up power supply.

Originally Posted by tjf

Pretty sure that'd conflict with R31, as the only exception I've seen is a device that needs a battery to function and will not without it, eg. a smartphone used for vision (like 254).

Otherwise, I'd have stuck a capacitor on the radio to make sure it stays on in the event of a brown-out.

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

If FIRST is working with someone to spec a radio, I'm sure they would allow themselves to write rules that made it legal.

Last year's R31 exception to the main battery read:

Additionally, batteries integral to and part of a COTS computing device or self-contained camera are also permitted (e.g. laptop batteries, GoPro style camera, etc.), provided they’re only used to power the COTS computing device and any peripheral COTS USB input devices connected to the COTS computing device and they are securely fastened to the ROBOT.

So, even with the same rule, a battery integral to the radio in its COTS state would have been legal. All they'd have to do is not disqualify it in a blue box or Q&A by deciding that the radio was something other than a computing device.

[notmattlythgoe]

Originally Posted by GeeTwo

Last year's R31 exception to the main battery read:


So, even with the same rule, a battery integral to the radio in its COTS state would have been legal. All they'd have to do is not disqualify it in a blue box or Q&A by deciding that the radio was something other than a computing device.

Or we could just go with the fact that R31 currently does not exist for the 2017 season and does not matter in this discussion...

[marshall]

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe

Or we could just go with the fact that R31 currently does not exist for the 2017 season and does not matter in this discussion...

Are you saying "change is coming"?

[notmattlythgoe]

Originally Posted by marshall

Are you saying "change is coming"?

[PayneTrain]

[notmattlythgoe]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

http://i.imgur.com/b7ysyoN.jpg

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to PayneTrain again.

Well done sir.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe

Well done sir.

imo i think you are just bad at giving out rep might i suggest arbitrary negative rep towards the following accounts:

this one

definitiely this one

probably this one since he is 18 harassment is ok

[marshall]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

imo i think you are just bad at giving out rep might i suggest arbitrary negative rep towards the following accounts:

this one

definitiely this one

probably this one since he is 18 harassment is ok

Hey! I take back all the nice things I never said about you.

[MrRoboSteve]

No question that boot time is a big downside of the OM5P-AN. It's ~60 seconds, compared to ~25 seconds for the previous d-link radio.

Considering the optimization target "number of seconds of robot-match time when the robot sat there unable to communicate", it is far superior to the d-link.

[bkahl]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

imo i think you are just bad at giving out rep might i suggest arbitrary negative rep towards the following accounts:

this one

definitiely this one

probably this one since he is 18 harassment is ok

You definitely forgot a few, but this is a start!

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

probably this one since he is 18 harassment is ok

I'm 19 and a half minus 1 month okay!!