Houston or EPCOT?

[moogleslair]

I know this has been discussed already in a few threads. At the risk of spreading the topic too thin I want to get a poll on the subject.

[Koko Ed]

For competiton sake, Houston by a mile.
Reliant Stadium is a beautiful facility and it was nice to have somewhere to sit all day and be able to watch the competition while at Epcot you had to make a choice of weather to stay at the tables out of the sun or go walk iver to a field and watch a match, God help you if your team was playing on Einstien.
As for entertainment value I prefer Disney over that crappy theme park. I should have went to the Rockets games instead, last night.

[PyroPhin]

Epcot, hands down

huston is nice and for something FIRST thew together last minute it was pretty damm sweet.

however...
for robotics, it just doesnt have what you need. there are way too many ramps to have to push the robots up and down, the distance between the fields and the pits was absurd.
it just lost alot of the personalized feeling that epcot brings like the ability to sit next to the field and cheer your team on versus being stuck in the bleachers.

the upside is that the dome is in the middle of a regular town, plenty of places to eat (10.99 all you can eat ribs!!) and a radio shack, "wall-mart" and a office depot in walking distance.

~Pyro

[Carolyn Duncan]

I rather liked being at Houston for the fact of space. There is actually enough space to have more teams there then we were ever able to have at Disney. I think that there are a few things that will need to be worked on but give FIRST and Houston a break. It was the first time away from Disney in quite a long time. Houston didn't know what to expect but they did a great many things. Yeah the ramps were a problem but I think there is a way around them, for instance splitting up the pits and fields between the buildings. Maybe try putting the Lego league kids in the building with the fields so that they have more room. I think there are plenty of ways to get around things it just needs some time to be developed a bit better. Entertainment wise 6 Flags could use some help but how many teams actually had enough time to do much there? The lines were all long and the park closed rather early. The parking lot at the reliant center was rather large I'm sure there could be a way to set up a type of carnival like attraction there and it would help with entertainment. Longer running busses would have been a bit nicer as well. But enough from me for now. What do you guys think?

[Marc P.]

First of all, Caroline, it was nice to have met you and Ken down there.


Second, I agree with almost everything stated so far. The space was quite the luxary, considering this is a rapidly growing organization, with an increasing demand to attend the National competition. I think FIRST has outgrown Epcot's tent cities already, and must seek larger venue's to enable the growth of this competition. I remember last year (2002) when people crammed into bleachers to watch matches in boiling hot tents, and suffered miserably when participating on Einstein. Houston proved a large enough space to contain the crowd, the pits, and the spirit of the competition, with room to grow. True, the trek from the pits to the fields were not that great, but for an event of that size the be so well orchestrated in such a short amount of time is nothing short of incredible. If the event were to be held in Houston next year, perhaps some waivers can be signed authorizing the use of the golf carts to move teams and robots from place to place. Or better, as Caroline had suggested, split the pits and fields between the two buildings. As far as spectating goes, there were access stairs at every field. Just like at Epcot, team viewing areas can be fenced in along the field, to provide better views for team participation. Overall, I think it was a great experience for FIRST in general to obtain a taste of what another venue would be like, and now has a sense of what it's options are for future Championship events.

As far as team parties go, I hear mixed reviews from everyone, some say it stunk, others loved it. This is true of any event. I hear mixed things about regional parties, and even last year's party. Everyone will have their own opinion regarding the parties, and not everyone will always be happy. The important thing is that the competition itself is fun, and all enjoy themselves while competing.

[gumby]

Epcot for sure... I only went to Epcot once, but last years competition was much more fun for my team and I. I think that while Reliant Stadium was a good place given the time frame that FIRST had to deal with, it was not the best place to have the competition. It's just too big. I remember last years playoff rounds were so intense, with all the teams inside the tents, and everyone packed together. The atmosphere was amazing. Reliant Stadium was too cavernous, and the noise just wasn't the same. I know for a fact that it wasn't the teams or anything, because the Canadian Regional was just as good for atmosphere as Florida was last year. There also MUST be a better way to deal with the robots than this years set up. We ended up having to rotate pushers because the guys who were doing it in the morning were so exhausted by the afternoon, and the golf carts were deemed a "safety hazard" (how is a controllable golf cart better than a bunch to people running pushing their robot??).

On top of the venue issues, the setup for entertainment was better at Disney. Six Flags wasn't open for much of the competition, which left a lot of people bored on Wednesday and Thursday, and once it was open, the lines were so long that it was almost pointless.

So, Houston did a decent job with what they had, but I think that the Disney setup was better, and more fun.

[WakeZero]

Being this is my fourth year in FIRST, and having three prior years at EPCOT... I would have to say EPCOT hands down. Here are some of my reasons, sorry to sound so down... but this has really been my least favorite FIRST event EVER.

1. The distance from the pits to the field was horrible, and those ramps were insane.

2. I know this is a budget cut event, but having no screens on the division fields really sucked.

3. I don't even want to go into some of the referee horror stories. This added with some teams blatant hatred for other teams makes me sick.

4. The match pairing hardly seemed random. Some of the teams I talked to had the same robots in almost every single match.

5. Elimination should be 2 out of 3. Enough said.

I am not saying the event was horrible, just nothing I am used to seeing. I was kind of sad that FIRST wasn't the way I described it to my rookie team this year... I wish they could have seen it at its prime last year

[Matrix3000k]

OK everyone is saying Houston was better and some are saying that epcot is better. well i have to also say epcot. here are my reasons

Negatives:

1. the food pricing in the stadium in Houston was out of this world.

2. the free food sucked and most of it was cold and not enjoyable.

3.the distance between the pits and the fields was insane. i have never in my life been soooo sore from all the walking there.

4. the busses sucked. they need to run more busses.

5. the finals setting sucked. by the time we got there thankfully we found seats cause my team (25) was in the finals. but the others could not find that much seating and i felt really bad for them.

6. the entertainment was horrible. we sat in our hotels for the time playing xbox, and other stuff.

7. Six Flags----don't make me go there. my team was trying to get me to go there but from what i heard from others i wasn't going to waste my time. and when my team (25) went they all told me that it really was sucky.

Positives:

1. THE FIRST FAMILY OF COURSE. all the teams there were great.

2. the space was nice.

3. the closing ceremony was excellent. those fireworks first scared the crap out of me cause i did not expect any this year in a closed arena.

4. the painting that team 103 presented was outstanding and almost brought tears to my eyes listing to the beautiful words that was said.


thats all i have to say about the aspect of the competition.

all in all epcot is still better even though is hot there but i would rather be hot than walk and pay alot of money to eat

Mario Azar

[comet22]

The main advantages to Disney over Houston was the fact that when you are staying in Disney, you are essentially in your own city. I know that my team is so strict with rules we can't even cross the road without a mentor so in Houston everything that we could do in Epcot was impossible. The idea behind Disney was there is a lot to do with transportation provided in a small area. It is just the best place to have it.

[Rurouni]

Also as a forth-year FIRSTer, I'd have to say epcot for some of the follow reasons, some of which have already been mentioned:

1. Yeah, that walk to the pits from the arena was ridiculous. I feel bad for all the drive teams that had to lug their robot back and forth.

2. Well, unlike the years in Disney, many teams were scattered throughout Houston. Past years, most of the teams attending nationals either staying ON Disney property, or were right near it. The differing numbers of hotels with FIRST people in them was staggering.

3. The last is one I can't really describe but if you went to nat's in previous years, you can sympathize. It just didn't feel like nationals, but I can't pin down why.

I'm not saying Reliant stadium wasn't good. I loved how the fields were set up. I also like how you could watch all four fields as once, due to the massive screens on the top of each wall. That made watching all the division finals matches especially easy, as opposed to having to run from one division to another to find seats for a match.

But to address a few points:

1. The distance from the pits to the field was horrible, and those ramps were insane.

I already mentioned this but I can sympathize.

2. I know this is a budget cut event, but having no screens on the division fields really sucked.

I don't know. I really didn't mind it. I had a good view of Curie and Einstein for both days of competition. It didn't bother me at all, if I couldn't see what was going on, I just looked over at the wall.

3. I don't even want to go into some of the referee horror stories.

There are horror stories every year. People need to stop complaining about it. The refs have a job to do, and they can call it as they see it. That's all there is to it. Granted, a call may not seem justified to those in the stands, but the refs can only do so much. Cut them so slack please, they're just trying to do what they can to keep the competition fair.

This added with some teams blatant hatred for other teams makes me sick.

That has nothing to do with the way nats went this year. That happens every year, and yes it is sickening. I can not think of a good reason to form such hatreds. People should be talking and exchanging ideas. Friendly rivalries are okay, because they spur on ideas and fuel more motivation for some teams. But the blatant hatred should stop, I can agree with you. As with the looking down on teams. If someone comes to you pit wanting to ask you about your robot, you should not treat them with arrogance. A certain team, which shall remain nameless, treated me like crap when I was asking them about how their robot worked and how their autonomous mode worked. I know I'm not the only one to experience this and it sickens me. The teams in FIRST should treat each other with respect, not with such insulting words to discourage other teams.

4. The match pairing hardly seemed random. Some of the teams I talked to had the same robots in almost every single match.

Again, I agree. The randomizer this year didn't work well. I noticed this at the UTC regional too. Oh well, what are you going to do. Smeh.

5. Elimination should be 2 out of 3. Enough said.

I don't know. I think this way, it made the matches alot more exciting. But that is up to everyone's individual tastes though

[Gretchen]

my vote is epcot, hands down. last year the competition seemed more focused on the unity of the teams, and epcot helped facilitate that. This year, everyone was separated. the issue of housing at disney was excellent; most teams stayed in the park or near it, making the opportunity to meet other people better. just knowing that there were hundreds of other FIRSTers right there was nice, and kept me focused on why we were there. Even the pits weren't separated into divisions, making it easier to meet other teams and check out robots that weren't in your division. i know this year i hardly ever left my division's section of the pits and i feel like i missed out on seeing some great robots. another thing i really noticed was that the team party was hardly that. yeah, the rides at six flags were great, but i missed the dancing and socializing that we had in epcot. last year the team party was all about winding down and having a fun time with everybody, because it was our last night there, but this year it just seemed more like a field trip.

[WakeZero]

Originally posted by Rurouni
There are horror stories every year. People need to stop complaining about it. The refs have a job to do, and they can call it as they see it. That's all there is to it. Granted, a call may not seem justified to those in the stands, but the refs can only do so much. Cut them so slack please, they're just trying to do what they can to keep the competition fair.

Ask Jason M. with FIRST (originally from 254) about how unfair 60 was treated. I really don't want to go into it because its not my place, but when I found out I was appalled.

There were also some instances in both Curie and Galileo playoffs where teams got DQd that should not have. Team 341 got called for an intentional tipping when they were trying to keep 68 off the ramp. It didn't effect them from moving on, but it was just so bogus.

And I agree, the refs work hard. The thing with 60 is just unacceptable though...

[Kit Gerhart]

Houston had its advantages. It was much better for watching matches, especially the finals, with the field being on the floor and the stands elevated. A non-Houston-related thing I liked was mixing the finals matches with the awards. It was good for the teams in the finals because it allowed them more cool down time and more repair time, if needed. I liked it as a spectator, because it separated the speeches with the excitement of the matches. As has been mentioned by many others, the downside of Houston's competition site was the long walk and steep ramps for the drive teams.

That said, overall, I much prefer Epcot for making the Championship a fun event. It is hard to imagine a better place, anywhere in the world, for 10,000 teenagers to stay entertained and have fun safely, and without getting into trouble. If you stay in All Star Sports/Music/Movies, you have the swimming pools, arcades, etc. right there, and you have transportation to and from all the parks. Disney is just a fun place to spend a few days. It is kind of expensive, but the cost per person wasn't that much higher than at Houston.

Our hotel in Houston, on the other hand, had a pool, but the water was so cold that almost no one used it, and that was about it for "entertainment" at the hotel. Also, I think most people felt that it was not the sort of location where you would want a bunch of kids to take off on their own to have fun. The Six Flags park in Houston seemed ill-prepared for the size of our group at the gate when the awards ceremony ended. It took way too long to get in, and then there was the food...

Still, those who set up the competition venue at Epcot might be able to learn some things from the Houston event, and from the regionals. Maybe I'm missing something, but it would seem that having the Einstein field lower to the ground, and having the bleachers closer to the field and higher would make things much better for watching the matches there. A place like Reliant would always have the advantage of being an indoor facility, though.

There are a number of priorities involved in orgainizing the Championship and selecting a site, and an important one is to make the event FUN. Disney is probably the best place in the world for that to happen.

[av11d]

I was somewhat dissapointed by the FIRST setup in Houston. This was my first year, and it just wasn't like what others had described Epcot as being. There wasn't enough to do in between matches. I got tired just sitting there and watching matches all day, the only other thing to do was walk around and visit the pits. They need to setup something in the parking lot. I enjoyed playing frisbee outside the stadium though. Six Flags was also overcrowded at night and took a LONG time to get into. I had more fun at the hotel sometimes!

I was WIPED out by the end of the day by walking between the stadiums SO MUCH. The ramps are so long! I also didn't like how so many teams were at different hotels!

It was still fun overall.

[roboticscom13]

I liked Houston a lot this year for championships. I do not think that in the later years that Epcot will have the facilities to hold us. Anyway back to the point i had only three complaints....

1)The distance between the pits and fields and the distance between matches. I recall having one set of matches where we had no time to get to the pits, so i ran full speed from the outside of the field area and the pits to get a new drill motor and a new battery just to come back and not have enough time to change the motor.

2)The food. The food was way too overpriced and the quality was less than satisfactory, minus the Papa John's Pizza. I mean common 3.25 for a water. Enough said.

3)The 8in. of concrete with no padding. As being in the pits all three days and on my feet for almost the whole time my feet where killing me by the end of the day. The 8 inches of concrete floor with no give has to be changed.

Besides those three complaints I thought that FIRST did a good job organizing Championships this year. I could be wrong but wasn't there 5 divisions last year? Einstein being the extra division.