Ontario Moving to District Model in 2017

[ratdude747]

If Michigan Districts fill up, there are usually a few open slots down in Indiana. Not as close as Michigan, but it's only one state further south.

[dtengineering]

Originally Posted by WelderManiac

We're quite concerned right now. It's a fifteen hour drive to send the robot down unless we were to ship it in a crate. Having to go to two events would be a logistical and budgetary nightmare for us. We're trying to go to the Northern Lights Regional next year instead of down to GTRE, like we did this year.

I'm also worried for team 4704 (Timmins), which I assume would have an even harder time raising the funds to do districts.

That is a down side of having illogical district boundaries. For the past two years BC teams have had to compete in Calgary, rather than in the PNW district event taking place about one hour's drive south of them in Washington state.

To add to the irony, Alaska is able to send teams to PNW district events, meaning that Vancouver teams are surrounded by a district they cannot (at present) join.

Nothing against the Calgary regional (both teams had a great time there), but it makes poor environmental and economic logic to drive over 12 hours to get to an event when you have events one hour and three hours drive from your school.

Knowing several key people involved in both Ontario and PNW, I have faith that over time they will be able to make districts work out really well for ALL the teams... not just the 95% of teams that currently see a huge benefit from the district model.

Congratulations to Ontario on going district. I've been volunteering in the PNW for a few years now, and while I'm blown away by the commitment of the key volunteers, it has been great for the teams that can take part in it.

Jason

[IKE]

I am very excited to hear Ontario is making the transition.

Some tips:

1. Have at least 1 mentor or former student from your team sign up to be an inspector. Commitments for inspecting can be relatively light, and a lot of inspectors make light work. Students heavily involved in build (typically electrical or mechanical) tend to work out well.
2. Refs are also typically of high demand. I will not pretend I know what it takes, but I know a lot of former students a couple years out of the program tend to do a good job for us in Michigan. This is a higher pressure role than inspecting. I have heard former competition team students do well in this role as long as they do not hold grudges.
3. Try to get parents involved with some of the other non-key volunteer roles for events. I smile every year that I see one parent of students that graduated in 2009 still helping with scoring table at a couple events each year.
4. Talk with your sponsors about whether or not they could spare someone for Judging.


For many regions, the switch to District system can be a great spur for growth. Keep this in mind and have key volunteers look for other prospects to help in their roles for future years.

Congratulations again. The first year can be very scary and will be a lot of hard work, but once you have completed a District Championship, it is hard to imagine going back.

Hopefully I will see a couple teams from Canada next year at my Michigan events.

[first3234]

Originally Posted by Roboshant

Need a citation. I would argue that Waterford and Troy would be better contenders for the premier district. Anyways 1114 already prototypes in Troy



^This might actually become reality.

Yes they attract a lot of competitive teams but west michigan(gvsu event) it has been around since 2003 and has been held every year since then Waterford started in 201 and troy since 2009 I think it's save to say that west Michigan is the premiere district of "FIM"

[Mark Sheridan]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

That is a down side of having illogical district boundaries. For the past two years BC teams have had to compete in Calgary, rather than in the PNW district event taking place about one hour's drive south of them in Washington state.

To add to the irony, Alaska is able to send teams to PNW district events, meaning that Vancouver teams are surrounded by a district they cannot (at present) join.

Nothing against the Calgary regional (both teams had a great time there), but it makes poor environmental and economic logic to drive over 12 hours to get to an event when you have events one hour and three hours drive from your school.

Knowing several key people involved in both Ontario and PNW, I have faith that over time they will be able to make districts work out really well for ALL the teams... not just the 95% of teams that currently see a huge benefit from the district model.

Congratulations to Ontario on going district. I've been volunteering in the PNW for a few years now, and while I'm blown away by the commitment of the key volunteers, it has been great for the teams that can take part in it.

Jason

I am not sure why FIRST is obsessed with geographic boarders. This was solved in high school sports a long time ago. There are several California high schools that compete in Nevada athletic leagues for this very reason.

I think teams should be able to request to join a district.

[GreyingJay]

Originally Posted by Mark Sheridan

I am not sure why FIRST is obsessed with geographic boarders. This was solved in high school sports a long time ago. There are several California high schools that compete in Nevada athletic leagues for this very reason.

I think teams should be able to request to join a district.

Won't this become a moot point if/when all regions go to districts? Given that we've been talking about Ontario teams going to Michigan, does that imply that once you're in the districts system, you can just ask to play with a different district? Or must you compete in your home district before going to visit another?

It's the teams that are in the district system that cannot request to go to a traditional regional instead, and vice versa.

[scca229]

Originally Posted by GreyingJay

It's the teams that are in the district system that cannot request to go to a traditional regional instead, and vice versa.

It is my understanding that it is the other way around. A District team can attend a Regional, including advancing directly to World Championships with either Winning (or generated Wildcard) or earning an advancing award (Chairman's, EI, RAS).

As far as I know, Regional teams cannot in any way compete at a District event.


I am far removed from being in a District area though, do I have this wrong in my mind?

[GreyingJay]

Originally Posted by scca229

It is my understanding that it is the other way around. A District team can attend a Regional, including advancing directly to World Championships with either Winning (or generated Wildcard) or earning an advancing award (Chairman's, EI, RAS).

My understanding is that district teams can attend a regional after attending their district events, but cannot choose to play at a regional instead of going to district events.

Edit: :s/attend/register

[ATannahill]

Originally Posted by GreyingJay

My understanding is that district teams can attend a regional after attending their district events, but cannot choose to play at a regional instead of going to district events.

The way it has been in the past and I expect it to continue going forward is they can register for a regional after registering for their two districts, the chronological order of their regional and districts does not matter.

[scca229]

Originally Posted by GreyingJay

My understanding is that district teams can attend a regional after attending their district events, but cannot choose to play at a regional instead of going to district events.

The "instead" part would be correct. If you are in Districts, your initial Registration Window is for Districts and then you can later register for any open slots in Regionals. I don't believe there is a limitation on what competition weeks the Regionals can be though, just that you are not able to register for them until I believe the 3rd Event Regional Registration Window opens, basically after Regional teams have had their chance to choose their first and second events. You can play in a Regional before your second District event week though (otherwise District teams could never play a Week 1 or 2 Regional).

edit: Like rtfgnow mentioned, I'm typing based on rules through the 2016 season...things could change for 2017.

[GreyingJay]

Thanks guys, distinction noted between registering for events and actually attending them

[Mark Sheridan]

Originally Posted by GreyingJay

Won't this become a moot point if/when all regions go to districts? Given that we've been talking about Ontario teams going to Michigan, does that imply that once you're in the districts system, you can just ask to play with a different district? Or must you compete in your home district before going to visit another?

It's the teams that are in the district system that cannot request to go to a traditional regional instead, and vice versa.

For the California Tahoe area high schools like Truckee, they are in the Nevada Interscholastic Activities Association. So for Truckee football, they have played a championship game in Reno, Nevada. This is an examples of how population densities don't follow state borders and that borders can split a population.

So in the application for a FIRST team, it would mean that if a team gets the first choice on their preferred local district event and the benefits of a more local district championship. The key point is to give a mechanism to help team get to their local events irregardless of their state boarder. I am proposing that an out of district team has another option to having to find an open slot. They would apply to join a district and thus count toward district population for event planning and are part of the district and thus entitled to all those benefits. Of course, an application can be denied.

So for those BC schools, I think they should be able to apply to join PNW if they want to and PNW can decide if they can join or not.

[P.J.]

Originally Posted by IKE

2. Refs are also typically of high demand. I will not pretend I know what it takes, but I know a lot of former students a couple years out of the program tend to do a good job for us in Michigan. This is a higher pressure role than inspecting. I have heard former competition team students do well in this role as long as they do not hold grudges.

I'll take this one.

Yes, referees always seem to be in high demand. As Ike said, alumni are a great resource to pull from. Speaking as an alum turned referee (turned unofficial referee recruiter and trainer), it's great to have people familiar with how FRC games typically work transition to reffing. It's much easier to train them than, say, a parent from a team.

I've noticed the "best" alumni referees seem to have either been on drive team or the head scouts on their former teams. These are the positions that usually know the games and rules the best.

It's a high pressure job, but you also get the "best seat in the house" as one of my former head referees used to say. I highly recommend it for alumni who want to remain involved in first without necessarily mentoring a team.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by P.J.

I'll take this one.

Yes, referees always seem to be in high demand. As Ike said, alumni are a great resource to pull from. Speaking as an alum turned referee (turned unofficial referee recruiter and trainer), it's great to have people familiar with how FRC games typically work transition to reffing. It's much easier to train them than, say, a parent from a team.

I've noticed the "best" alumni referees seem to have either been on drive team or the head scouts on their former teams. These are the positions that usually know the games and rules the best.

It's a high pressure job, but you also get the "best seat in the house" as one of my former head referees used to say. I highly recommend it for alumni who want to remain involved in first without necessarily mentoring a team.

Ditto this. The other good element for a ref is practice at offseasons. It'll at least give you a feel for how the game is played as a ref, even though it'll change before the next year.

As far as "in high demand"... can I double that? I'd like to not end up in stripes at 4 events again next year (two of them I wasn't planning on that...). (Though I've got a funny feeling that I'll be recruited to do just that...)

[Brian Maher]

Originally Posted by Mark Sheridan

I am not sure why FIRST is obsessed with geographic boarders.

I couldn't agree more. As a member of MAR, the one district with a non-state-line boundary, I've seen that logically grouping teams can be much more effective than state lines. For the most part, New Jersey and Eastern Pennsylvania form a pretty continuous cluster of teams that doesn't really leave out any nearby groupings of teams (aside from NYC, which makes more sense to be a separate district due to the transportation challenges presented to NYC teams). The western boundary of MAR is not a state line, but it's a line that makes sense.

(And I'd hate to play without our Pennsylvania friends.)