Go to Post [In FIRST]...Arab and Israeli students speak on the same level, because they are alliance partners. - Tottanka [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > General Forum
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 19-06-2016, 01:53
asid61's Avatar
asid61 asid61 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Anand Rajamani
FRC #0115 (MVRT)
Team Role: Mechanical
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Cupertino, CA
Posts: 2,224
asid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bearing Reamer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by InFlight View Post
An experienced mentor machinist with a Starrett micrometer can achieve half a thousand on a nice big lathe that well is adjusted.

An above average student machinist on a mini-lathe using $15 digital calipers would be good to hold 0.002".

My point was either end of the machinist spectrum could take a 1.125 mill or drill and undersized it enough to achieve a snug R8 bearing fit.
I can get to half a thousandth without too much care on the small Taig that the woodshop teacher owns. If one is using a good pair of Brown and Sharpe calipers or Mitutoyo, those hold to 0.0005" easily. Of course, maintaining a "good pair" of quality calipers is difficult in a student's hands. Ironically, I find that using a telescoping gauge and micrometer is harder for me than just trusting the calipers, although either method isn't impossible.
Back when we used to use the boring head, all measurements would be taken on the B&S calipers, well before I was on the team. They were able to get reasonably good presses on bearings, although I don't know what the skill level of the people were before I was there.
That being said if I tried to get that tolerance on steel, I wouldn't have much luck.

Drilling a 1.125" hole with a drill bit I would try to avoid. Using an endmill will get those tolerances but a drill bit won't hold the tolerances easily unless you drill undersized by 1/64" or something first, and even then I'm not sure. The largest hole I have drilled in metal was with a 7/8" drill bit, and that did not go as well as just using an endmill of the same size. What is your method to make sure it works correctly?
__________________
<Now accepting CAD requests and commissions>


Last edited by asid61 : 19-06-2016 at 01:58.
Reply With Quote
  #17   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 19-06-2016, 10:15
InFlight's Avatar
InFlight InFlight is offline
3574 - The King's of Bling
AKA: Jim
FRC #3574 (High Tekerz)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 164
InFlight is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Bearing Reamer?

Most 1.125 drills have a 1/2" shank. You simply can put that in a 1/2" collet and use it in your mill.
__________________

Thank you 2016 Alliance Partners - 948, 1510, 2046, 2521, 2980, 2990, 4911, 4683
Reply With Quote
  #18   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-06-2016, 12:40
RoboChair's Avatar
RoboChair RoboChair is offline
He who fixes with hammers #tsimfd
AKA: Devin Castellucci
FRC #1678 (Citrus Circuits and 5458 Digital Minds)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Davis, CA
Posts: 653
RoboChair has a reputation beyond reputeRoboChair has a reputation beyond reputeRoboChair has a reputation beyond reputeRoboChair has a reputation beyond reputeRoboChair has a reputation beyond reputeRoboChair has a reputation beyond reputeRoboChair has a reputation beyond reputeRoboChair has a reputation beyond reputeRoboChair has a reputation beyond reputeRoboChair has a reputation beyond reputeRoboChair has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bearing Reamer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by InFlight View Post
An experienced mentor machinist with a Starrett micrometer can achieve half a thousand on a nice big lathe that well is adjusted.

An above average student machinist on a mini-lathe using $15 digital calipers would be good to hold 0.002".

My point was either end of the machinist spectrum could take a 1.125 mill or drill and undersized it enough to achieve a snug R8 bearing fit.
My students could hit 0.001" easy with any lathe we have(maybe not the Grizzly) my experienced lathe students could hit that +- 0.0005" most of the time with a few pointers. But really reamers are the way to make it easy, you can make your own for cleaning up holes if you have patience, spare time, and some tool steel.
My favorite "bugdet" calipers by the way are a $35 pair of Fowler digital calipers from Amazon

Quote:
Originally Posted by s_forbes View Post
I don't think that this is what you're looking for, but we used this step drill bit to clean up bearing holes in our waterjetted pieces this past season. It can put a 7/8" OD hole into 1/8" thick material, or run through thicker material with a 1.125" OD hole. Just the right size for the 3/8" and 1/2" bearings we all use.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#8841a35

Step drills are cheaper than reamers, but they can wander if you are taking off a lot of material. Our gearboxes worked great, but we had padded in an extra .003" between adjacent bearing holes to prevent gears from binding if things were off. If you want tighter tolerances, you probably don't want a step drill.
I will second the step drill method! It's super fast and easy and in my opinion is SO worth the $45 or so it costs. It will post size your holes and will be solid as long as you use positive retention like rivets or retaining compound.

My personal favorite method for making a 1.125 hole in aluminum has to be a Carpenter's Spade Drill. I am dead serious here. It probably won't be fantastic for gearbox plates but with a little time on the grinder to modify the bit it will make a press fit hole every time. The only major limits on this method is it can't go through much more than 0.125 thick material and nothing tougher than aluminum. You should never try and do this by hand, not really for danger reasons, it just won't work. Your puny meat fingers aren't as stiff as a drill press. Below is roughly what a modified spade bit looks like.


If you don't believe me watch AnthonyDV drill a hole and hand press a bearing in.
https://youtu.be/yIonCvyEFks?t=29m40s
__________________

11 Years and counting! Over a third of my life has been spent with FRC.
Reply With Quote
  #19   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-06-2016, 15:44
InFlight's Avatar
InFlight InFlight is offline
3574 - The King's of Bling
AKA: Jim
FRC #3574 (High Tekerz)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 164
InFlight is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Bearing Reamer?

There seems to be a misconception of the accuracy that can be achieved on an average small or mid-size lathe with a 3 Jaw Chuck.

Most three jaw chucks have some run out, not holding the work perfectly centered. You can measure this run out easily enough, and it will be much larger than 0.0005 on almost all lathes. This is not much of an issue if you don't move the work, and use a cut-off. As soon as you move the work in the jaws, or use some of the chucked length you will introduce inaccuracy.

Extreme accuracy requires use of a collet work holder, well-adjusted gibs, a very stiff tool post, and quite accurate measuring tools.
__________________

Thank you 2016 Alliance Partners - 948, 1510, 2046, 2521, 2980, 2990, 4911, 4683
Reply With Quote
  #20   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-06-2016, 16:28
asid61's Avatar
asid61 asid61 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Anand Rajamani
FRC #0115 (MVRT)
Team Role: Mechanical
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Cupertino, CA
Posts: 2,224
asid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bearing Reamer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by InFlight View Post
There seems to be a misconception of the accuracy that can be achieved on an average small or mid-size lathe with a 3 Jaw Chuck.

Most three jaw chucks have some run out, not holding the work perfectly centered. You can measure this run out easily enough, and it will be much larger than 0.0005 on almost all lathes. This is not much of an issue if you don't move the work, and use a cut-off. As soon as you move the work in the jaws, or use some of the chucked length you will introduce inaccuracy.

Extreme accuracy requires use of a collet work holder, well-adjusted gibs, a very stiff tool post, and quite accurate measuring tools.
Runout != diameter tolerances. Although getting concentricity with a round face is affected by the runout, the bearing press fit diameter is not affected.
The freshly rebored taig jaws had around 0.0003" of runout, and have probably increased to beyond that since I last redid them.
__________________
<Now accepting CAD requests and commissions>


Last edited by asid61 : 21-06-2016 at 14:46.
Reply With Quote
  #21   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-06-2016, 16:38
FrankJ's Avatar
FrankJ FrankJ is offline
Robot Mentor
FRC #2974 (WALT)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Marietta GA
Posts: 1,932
FrankJ has a reputation beyond reputeFrankJ has a reputation beyond reputeFrankJ has a reputation beyond reputeFrankJ has a reputation beyond reputeFrankJ has a reputation beyond reputeFrankJ has a reputation beyond reputeFrankJ has a reputation beyond reputeFrankJ has a reputation beyond reputeFrankJ has a reputation beyond reputeFrankJ has a reputation beyond reputeFrankJ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bearing Reamer?

I use a step bit most of the time. If the hole is a little big, I peen the edges. I use positive retention to locate the bearing so I am not depending on the press fit to do that. I had not thought about polishing the bit to make it a little smaller. Large dia twist drills tend to end poorly with sheet metal. When they grab, they will bend the sheet metal.
__________________
If you don't know what you should hook up then you should read a data sheet
Reply With Quote
  #22   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 26-07-2016, 19:34
Fusion_Clint's Avatar
Fusion_Clint Fusion_Clint is offline
Registered User
AKA: Clint Brawley
FRC #0364 (Fusion)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Gulfport MS
Posts: 240
Fusion_Clint has a reputation beyond reputeFusion_Clint has a reputation beyond reputeFusion_Clint has a reputation beyond reputeFusion_Clint has a reputation beyond reputeFusion_Clint has a reputation beyond reputeFusion_Clint has a reputation beyond reputeFusion_Clint has a reputation beyond reputeFusion_Clint has a reputation beyond reputeFusion_Clint has a reputation beyond reputeFusion_Clint has a reputation beyond reputeFusion_Clint has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bearing Reamer?

Update,

I went ahead and bought one of these, I got it from toolstoday for $31.00

http://www.amanatool.com/products/ro...nch-shank.html.

Today we started making a custom single speed transmission for our first WCD chassis that we are working on during the off season. We cut our bearing holes 0.01" undersize with our CNC router.

Then we used this router bit, in our old manual mill for the final reaming of the bearing holes at approximately 800 RPMs. Plate was 0.25" thick 6061 T6 aluminum.

It worked perfectly, I'm pretty sure it will stand up to long term use, time will tell. But for $31, it is a cheap and reliable way to finish your bearing holes for a press fit.
__________________
Clint Brawley
USAF 1992-2013
Fusion 364, 2014 Season to present
Reply With Quote
  #23   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 26-07-2016, 20:06
asid61's Avatar
asid61 asid61 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Anand Rajamani
FRC #0115 (MVRT)
Team Role: Mechanical
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Cupertino, CA
Posts: 2,224
asid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond reputeasid61 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bearing Reamer?

Good to know! Did you take any measurements of the final diameter? How tight was the press?
__________________
<Now accepting CAD requests and commissions>

Reply With Quote
  #24   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 26-07-2016, 21:27
Fusion_Clint's Avatar
Fusion_Clint Fusion_Clint is offline
Registered User
AKA: Clint Brawley
FRC #0364 (Fusion)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Rookie Year: 2013
Location: Gulfport MS
Posts: 240
Fusion_Clint has a reputation beyond reputeFusion_Clint has a reputation beyond reputeFusion_Clint has a reputation beyond reputeFusion_Clint has a reputation beyond reputeFusion_Clint has a reputation beyond reputeFusion_Clint has a reputation beyond reputeFusion_Clint has a reputation beyond reputeFusion_Clint has a reputation beyond reputeFusion_Clint has a reputation beyond reputeFusion_Clint has a reputation beyond reputeFusion_Clint has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bearing Reamer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by asid61 View Post
Good to know! Did you take any measurements of the final diameter? How tight was the press?
Did not measure the hole, I will on Thursday at our next meeting. However, I did measure the cutting blades and my Fowler Dial Caliper had them exactly 1.125" apart.

The fit was too tight to hand press the bearing in, but our little 1 ton arbor press put it easily and the bearing spun very nicely afterwards.

V/r
__________________
Clint Brawley
USAF 1992-2013
Fusion 364, 2014 Season to present
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 16:30.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi