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#1
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Re: # of Divisions at Championships
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Obviously FIRST's goal with half champs isn't to find the best robot, it's to get a lot more teams involved. But if we're stuck with this, I'd at least like 4 divisions at each to give roughly the same level of play as we've had for the last 2 years in St Louis. |
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#2
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Re: # of Divisions at Championships
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#3
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Re: # of Divisions at Championships
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https://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/im...d53a1ba3_l.jpg So some DCMPs are better or roughly in line with CMP divisions, but others are worse, especially where depth is concerned. Assuming we're getting the crème de la crème at champs now, which is obviously not quite true, halfchamps divisions would each drop off twice as fast and have 15 additional worse teams. They'd actually be a bit better than that, but it's really not an attractive idea either way. Plz no 50/800 team divisions |
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#4
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Re: # of Divisions at Championships
You know, it bugs me a bit when people talk about "quality of robot/competition", like it's a bad thing that not everyone at champs has a perfect robot. I think it really misses the point of the whole competition - rookies, smaller teams, worse performing robots can all gain inspiration from being at an event with better teams. Teams of all flavors can gain experience, friendships, and show and receive recognition from teams from across the country and the world. It's one thing to play at your local even with pretty much the same teams every year. It's something completely different to play in an environment where you don't know everyone.
Is Champs all about the robot, or is it about Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology? Those teams that only get to go to champs rarely, if ever, can find it a transformational experience. Those teams that are always in contention for Einstein may not see the event as inspirational when they look around at glorified kit bots... but maybe that's because they're supposed to be the inspiration. Instead of bemoaning how "watered down" champs is becoming, we should be trying to figure out how to make the event great for every team there. |
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#5
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Re: # of Divisions at Championships
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#6
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Re: # of Divisions at Championships
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When a team puts in hundreds hours of work to build an inspiring robot and then goes to a "championship" event where they regularly play with robots that lose wheels... it's uninspiring for competitors and it's pretty crappy for spectators. Championships is supposed to be the Super Bowl of smarts, with a few notable exceptions [1] I don't think I've ever seen the football equivalent of losing a wheel at the Super Bowl level. Why do these underperforming teams need to attend a "World Championship" event? It seems like a lot of expense and hassle to play 8 matches and then sit around on Saturday. What do they get out of it? Is it just playing with new teams? Is it exposure to the conferences? Is it merely being around? Are there cheaper ways we can simulate this experience either at a local level (cut down travel costs) or with not bringing robot (cut down CMP competition size but increase conference count, make it more of an experience for spectators)? [1] Cough Seahawks. Cough Cough. [2] [2] Also, for the record, I think this is the first football comparison I've actually named a real team. |
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#7
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Re: # of Divisions at Championships
I think you might consider Einsteins the equivalent of the Super Bowl... Champs itself is more like the play offs that lead up to it. And lets be completely honest, even a team as horrible as the Browns [1] makes it to the playoffs occasionally.
[1] I grew up in Ohio and am, unfortunately, a Browns fan ![]() |
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#8
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#9
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Re: # of Divisions at Championships
Does Dean refer to Championship as the Super Bowl of Smarts? Or FRC in general?
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#10
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Re: # of Divisions at Championships
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"The Super Bowl of Smarts" has morphed into a bit of a colloquialism. I am sure Dean has referred to the Championship Event being "like a Super Bowl" in the past, and you can find articles about the Championship event being referred to as "The Super Bowl of Smarts." I have always agreed with using the tagline "The Varsity Sport for the Mind" and we will continue to use a less sanitized and fat-free vanilla version of that tag when we pitch our program. |
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#11
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Re: # of Divisions at Championships
I'm afraid to ask because I know the PayneTrain doesn't stop...but what is your less sanitized and fat-free vanilla version of that tag line?
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#12
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Re: # of Divisions at Championships
#tsimfd
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#13
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Re: # of Divisions at Championships
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#14
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Re: # of Divisions at Championships
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I'm also going to reiterate a point I made the last time this came up, that some people, who think this is a robot building contest, are in serious trouble--and that's actually from Dean or Woodie at Kickoff some years back. This is a robot building contest, yes--but it's also a bunch of life lessons, a passel of inspiration, and hopefully some recognition. It's also a pretty severe time sink... Treating it as just a robot building contest is not accurate. What I'd be hoping for would be 8 divisions, 50 teams each, NO MORE THAN 12 matches per team. (Wait, what?) Before you all start going crazy, I'd also say that no fewer than 10 matches would be acceptable. And the reason for that is to allow either more free time or less overall time. This would particularly benefit smaller teams, in that they could get out more and see more of the event, if the free time route was chosen, or that they might be able to cheat a little bit on travel and come in on Thursday morning with minimal loss of time in the pits. More inspiration, less time sink/burnout... interesting dilemma, I'd say. |
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#15
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Re: # of Divisions at Championships
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We're well past the point about complaining that half champs is diluting the quality of the event. What I'm saying is that with an already diluted competition it would be idiotic to run 8 divisions and cause even further dilution. Not to mention the fact that it will put an even bigger strain on your volunteer base that you're already spreading too thin by holding 2 events in the first place. |
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