FIRST On A Disturbing Path

[Madison]

Originally posted by Chris Nowak
Average incomes of minorties and proabilities for them to go to college are lower than for white americans. So why shouldnt we give them a boost? That is the reasoning behing these types of things.

Well, it wouldn't hurt for the white folks to stop creating conditions that make such a dichotomy exist, either.

Some folks think affirmative action type programs are reverse discrimination. Some think they're good at providing opportunities to people who don't get them by circumstance. Or, it could be that the white folks are trying to make everyone forget the oppression they created in the first place by throwing minorities a bone and implementing affirmative action. It's certainly the best way to maintain the status quo without saying, "Hey, we deserve this more than you, but we don't want you to make a fuss about it."

It's all a matter of perspective and interpretation, I guess. It gets messy when the thoughts and feelings of entire groups are in question.

[Caleb Fulton]

I am white, and I am a minority in my school (~65% African-American, 35% other), but I won't get any minority scholarships.

[Joe Matt]

I feel that this is more of an opinion thread on current politics than FIRST. Saying that JJ is 'scum' and then saying FIRST is responsable for it is sad.

Your comments boarderline racest. They remind me of the southern Republican ads of the early 90s where they said that minorities didn't deserve jobs that they were given high up.

[Caleb Fulton]

Some folks think affirmative action type programs are reverse discrimination. Some think they're good at providing opportunities to people who don't get them by circumstance. Or, it could be that the white folks are trying to make everyone forget the oppression they created in the first place by throwing minorities a bone and implementing affirmative action. It's certainly the best way to maintain the status quo without saying, "Hey, we deserve this more than you, but we don't want you to make a fuss about it."

History has proven that throwing money at people who complain will not solve problems. It's socially equivalent to treating the symptoms, not the cause. One's life does not begin when they go to college; the "opportunity" with which minorities should be endowed should come at earlier stages in their life. If they are not qualified by the time they get to college to, in fact, attend college without a preference because of their race, they should not be admitted. This is not to say, however, that programs during the FIRST (get it?) stages of their education would be out of line or innefective.

It comes down to this: Racism is not about money anymore unless you are someone like Jessie Jackson; it is about a deep-seeded social divide that is perpetuated by those who seek to CONTINUE to derive power from its propagation (Jessie Jackson).

[Chris Nowak]

Originally posted by Caleb Fulton
Are you saying that all white students have middle-income, 2 parent families with no problems? Please tell me that you don't honestly believe what you just said...

No, all white families do not have middle income, two parent families. They do have problens. But they are not discriminated against at all as a whole. Minorities as a whole do have it worse off than Whites, because we are dominant, and we do discriminate, whether it be consciously or subconciously. If we want equality for the groups on a whole we need to bring the minorities forward in some way, cuz its not happening right now. This is one of those ways.

I'm certainly not saying you restrict all scholarships to being racialy biased toward minoritys.

Arent there a lot of scholarships for the underpriveleged as well?

[Chris Nowak]

Originally posted by M. Krass
Well, it wouldn't hurt for the white folks to stop creating conditions that make such a dichotomy exist, either.

Some folks think affirmative action type programs are reverse discrimination. Some think they're good at providing opportunities to people who don't get them by circumstance. Or, it could be that the white folks are trying to make everyone forget the oppression they created in the first place by throwing minorities a bone and implementing affirmative action. It's certainly the best way to maintain the status quo without saying, "Hey, we deserve this more than you, but we don't want you to make a fuss about it."

It's all a matter of perspective and interpretation, I guess. It gets messy when the thoughts and feelings of entire groups are in question.

Good point. This issue isnt black and white, in fact, it may be one of the most grey issues of this time. We are, in a way, negatively affecting the minorities because we are paying so much attention to this dichotomy(with scholarships and the like).

I gotta go to sleep now. This is gonna be a huge topic by morning. Post count went from 8 to 20 in a couple of minutes.

[Caleb Fulton]

. This issue isnt black and white, in fact, it may be one of the most grey issues of this time. We are, in a way, negatively affecting the minorities because we are paying so much attention to this dichotomy(with scholarships and the like).

Exactly...

All I'm saying is that this will not solve the problem. Sure, it will help a few "minorities" get a job, but will their peers have jobs? Will they have a better shot as a whole to actually SUCCEED instead of getting paid to ALMOST succeed?

From what I can see, FIRST does not have an underrepresentation of minorities at all. I also see that it is a much better way to CREATE SUCCESS than by compensating failure when it comes to the progressing of minorities nationwide. If Jessie Jackson really cared about the plight of African Americans, he would be throwing money at predominantly black high schools in order to encourage their participation in FIRST Robotics competitions and the like.

[DCaldwell05BCP]

Originally posted by JosephM
I feel that this is more of an opinion thread on current politics than FIRST. Saying that JJ is 'scum' and then saying FIRST is responsable for it is sad.

Your comments boarderline racest. They remind me of the southern Republican ads of the early 90s where they said that minorities didn't deserve jobs that they were given high up.

Your comments are ignorant and misinformed. They are also very poorly stated. I did not say FIRST is responsible for JJ's reputation. JJ is responsible for JJ.

This thread is about FIRST and I hope that it stays that way.

[sanddrag]

Originally posted by Caleb Fulton
I am white, and I am a minority in my school (~65% African-American, 35% other), but I won't get any minority scholarships.

I believe there is more white staff in my school than students. I think only about 20 of 1100 students are white like me. The rest are about 60% Armenian, 30% Asian, and 10% other.

[Caleb Fulton]

I'd like to see these kinds of quotas in the NBA: 12% black, 80% white, 8% other.

Yeah...That's what I thought

I'd also like to know why my middle-eastern friends cannot get minority scholarships. And my Asian friends as well...Aren't they minorities?

[sanddrag]

I think what this all boils down to is that the topic of minorities is all about relativity.

[Caleb Fulton]

Well...classifying someone as being either a "minority" or not a "minority" is racism plain and simple. Don't try to call it something else. If you want to defend it, you must defend the racist aspects of it as if they were not a bad thing--which you have the complete right to do.

To me, racism (in all of its forms) serves one purpose: gaining political or economic power. We do not need such things gumming up FIRST's gears....

[MikeDubreuil]

I have to congradulate the poster for starting this controversial topic without a flame war blowing back at himself. That's very difficult in this extreme liberal crowd. Anywho...

I think it's great that Jesse Jackson was at nationals. As much as I hate every view that he has, he is a very respected man. FIRST needs as much publicity it can possible get. Jesse Jackson is a very publicized figure and as such should be welcomed with open arms to the FIRST community.

Would you think the Pope coming to see FIRST would be bad if you were not Roman Catholic?

[Caleb Fulton]

Would you think the Pope coming to see FIRST would be bad if you were not Roman Catholic?

I'm not saying JJ shouldn't be allowed to come...

However, he shouldn't be allowed to bribe FIRST into doing whatever he wants them to...

[sevisehda]

This has gotten to politcal. If you noted I ended my white middle class male scholarship line with "j/k" which means joke. The point is if there were a scholarship for only people of european descent jessi jackson would be the first to protest. In my view its the same as a scholarship for a minority.

If the purpose is to help someone who is "underprivelaged" then make the requirement the parents income is less than X amount. I know plently on people at school who worked very hard in High School and could of used a few extra bucks but they weren't even able to apply to alot because they were white.

But in truth isn't anyone who doesn't participate in FIRST underprivelaged.(my attempt at lightning the mood in here).