Predictions: The Return of One Championship?

[SpaceBiz]

I personally do not feel strongly for or against the split champs decision, but many looking at the two champs as glorified super-regionals got me thinking...

As the reasoning behind two champs is to increase inspiration, and to accommodate the growth of FRC, we can come to the logical conclusion that at some point in time, FIRST will have to expand champs again, as FRC continues to grow.

They could expand to three champs, but at that point, I was thinking they could just make 4 super regionals (northeast, southeast, northwest, and southwest?) and bring back a single championship.

I believe it is just a matter of time before something like this happens, and we return to like how it was "in the good old days".

So as this is the dawn of the "2 Champs Era" I figured we should all predict/ discuss the end of this upcoming awkward period in FIRST history.

1) When will we return to single champs? (if ever)
2) Will they use the super regional system similar to other FIRST programs?
3) How many super-regionals will there be?
4) How will they determine who makes the championship?
5) Where will the lines for the super regions be drawn?
6) What venues will likely host the super regionals?
7) How many teams make each super regional the year single champs returns?
8) How many teams make championships?

[RoboChair]

Just find a way to get everybody in Districts.

Everybody gets to do 2 events or more.
Those that do well in their 2 events get to have a local championship experience.
Those that do well at District Champs get to go to the World Championship to compete with the top teams.
FIRST has complete control over attendance numbers by saying "we will take X number or % of teams from each District" (more or less how it works now anyway).

Major issues currently

International teams would need a large enough team density to make Districts work for them(not easy).
The other option is to retain the existing International Regionals and add another few and the international teams stay regional based.
Alternatively give the international teams the option to compete at a district event as if it was a regional or compete in a district of their choice.

[cbale2000]

Originally Posted by RoboChair

Just find a way to get everybody in Districts.

Everybody gets to do 2 events or more.
Those that do well in their 2 events get to have a local championship experience.

Can't speak for other events, but at least in the case of Michigan, there's a way to go before the "Local Championship" Experience is anywhere close to Worlds. The production quality is just not there yet. When District Championships start utilizing professional production companies again to put on a "real" show then we'll talk. If every District Championship had at least the kind of event production you see at an event like Festival de Robotique in Montreal, then we can looking at making them "replacements" for the the World Championship, currently they're basically just super-regional size events with district-quality production. Not to say the event's are bad, they just don't have the same impact.

[GeeTwo]

FIRST HQ has sent the message that "there can only be one" is not important to them. I fully expect that in coming years, the claim of "sole world champion" will come down to a non-official event (probably IRI), if it can even be expressed there. Expecting FIRST to "put Humpty Dumpty back together again" is, to use the words of a local sportscaster "jumping on the magic carpet ride" and denying reality.

Just to be clear -- I want to be wrong in this, but that's the way I read things.

[Jessica Boucher]

There was an image floating around in 2012 that recommended super regionals and one championship. It was used to pitch New England districts.

[bkahl]

Originally Posted by Jessica Boucher

There was an image floating around in 2012 that recommended super regionals and one championship. It was used to pitch New England districts.

[ASD20]

Originally Posted by bkahl

So does this model have 4 levels?

Districts/Regionals
DCMP/Regional CMP?
Super Regional
Worlds

I feel like 4 levels would be the way FIRST would go if they went back to 1 CMP. While still potentially possible to go back to 1 CMP and 2-3 levels after the current venue rentals end, any later and I think the backlash from people who don't remember 1 CMP would be equal to greater than the 2 CMP backlash. So I think if 1 CMP does happen again it will be because 2 CMP will eventually become 3 CMP, then 4+ CMP and then they add another level on top. However, if registration fees remain the same (and if anything they will probably go up), the total registration fees for teams who attend CMP would be around 20K, which is insane (even beyond the still quite insane 14k district teams pay now).

[FrankJ]

Originally Posted by cbale2000

Can't speak for other events, but at least in the case of Michigan, there's a way to go before the "Local Championship" Experience is anywhere close to Worlds. ...

If Michigan is there yet, don't expect the other districts to be close. At PCH, the district championship experience isn't even close to a large regional. Not a complaint. It is not really an apple to oranges comparison. A large regional experience doesn't compare to worlds.

[ASD20]

Originally Posted by FrankJ

If Michigan is there yet, don't expect the other districts to be close. At PCH, the district championship experience isn't even close to a large regional. Not a complaint. It is not really an apple to oranges comparison. A large regional experience doesn't compare to worlds.

I personally think that New England is actually pretty close. The level of play is already >= Worlds. While the wow-factor may not be as large as Worlds, as someone who went to Worlds for the first time after DCMPs this year (Note: I had also never been to a regional, but I had been to 2 DCMPs), I was pretty blown away by DCMPs.

While it didn't have a lot of the fluff of Worlds, when you strip it down to what it is at its core, a robotics competition, I truly think it rivaled Worlds. The matches were exciting to watch and it is the only competition I watched that I actually expected teams to capture the tower in quals. While it didn't have the diversity of Worlds, it was still great to be able to walk the pits and see some incredible robots from teams that, while they are in our district, we still rarely see. It did have that wow-factor in sheer size for all but those who have been to St. Louis (The walk from the pits to the practice field was actually probably further than the walk to queue for those lucky teams in Newton). For a spectator/sponsor walking in off the street or a new team, it definitely still was an incredible and inspiring experience.

And as far as all that fluff at Worlds, while some of it added to the event, some of it was definitely a waste of money. Sure the fancy signs looked nice, but I do not even want to know how many grants could be given out to struggling teams for the cost of the signs alone. Some of the other stuff like Scholarship Row and social events do already exist and can be expanded fairly easily (at least relative to the work required to keep adding new CMPs, so more people can get the "Championship Experience" that way). I think the only thing that NE DCMP is missing is conferences and more of a supplier and sponsor presence, all of which would also not be that hard to implement. Even increasing the production value and adding entertainment would cost nothing relative to the cost of more CMPs.

Ultimately, while NE DCMP is not, and will never be, as fun of a vacation as Worlds, I do think it is fairly close to being as fun of a robotics competition and CMPs will be all the more special if you do qualify. Also, if what people want is a vacation, then I will steal someone from CD's proposal: Move 2 Champs to Disney World and Disney Land and let everyone go.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by ASD20

I personally think that New England is actually pretty close. The level of play is already >= Worlds. While the wow-factor may not be as large as Worlds, as someone who went to Worlds for the first time after DCMPs this year (Note: I had also never been to a regional, but I had been to 2 DCMPs), I was pretty blown away by DCMPs.

While it didn't have a lot of the fluff of Worlds, when you strip it down to what it is at its core, a robotics competition, I truly think it rivaled Worlds. The matches were exciting to watch and it is the only competition I watched that I actually expected teams to capture the tower in quals. While it didn't have the diversity of Worlds, it was still great to be able to walk the pits and see some incredible robots from teams that, while they are in our district, we still rarely see. It did have that wow-factor in sheer size for all but those who have been to St. Louis (The walk from the pits to the practice field was actually probably further than the walk to queue for those lucky teams in Newton). For a spectator/sponsor walking in off the street or a new team, it definitely still was an incredible and inspiring experience.

And as far as all that fluff at Worlds, while some of it added to the event, some of it was definitely a waste of money. Sure the fancy signs looked nice, but I do not even want to know how many grants could be given out to struggling teams for the cost of the signs alone. Some of the other stuff like Scholarship Row and social events do already exist and can be expanded fairly easily (at least relative to the work required to keep adding new CMPs, so more people can get the "Championship Experience" that way). I think the only thing that NE DCMP is missing is conferences and more of a supplier and sponsor presence, all of which would also not be that hard to implement. Even increasing the production value and adding entertainment would cost nothing relative to the cost of more CMPs.

Ultimately, while NE DCMP is not, and will never be, as fun of a vacation as Worlds, I do think it is fairly close to being as fun of a robotics competition and CMPs will be all the more special if you do qualify. Also, if what people want is a vacation, then I will steal someone from CD's proposal: Move 2 Champs to Disney World and Disney Land and let everyone go.

Rivaled? I was BORED watching most qualification matches on Newton on Thursday and the hour or so I got to watch on Friday evening.

Of course, I've been fairly vocal that the direction I'd like to see is bring some of what makes CMP a good experience to the regional/district level and let CMP become a true Superb Owl of Smart.

[ASD20]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

Rivaled? I was BORED watching most qualification matches on Newton on Thursday and the hour or so I got to watch on Friday evening.

Well, since I the only quals I saw at Worlds were the 10 my team was in and the 10 before those, I was giving it the benefit of the doubt and assuming the ones I didn't watch were better.

[jwfoss]

Originally Posted by ASD20

I think the only thing that NE DCMP is missing is conferences and more of a supplier and sponsor presence, all of which would also not be that hard to implement.

If this is something you'd like to see at the 2017+ NE DCMPs you should reach out to NEFIRST and the event planners. Currently I believe that NEMO already hosts a conference am I'm sure it could be expanded to include some of the same presentations that have been given at the the *NEFIRST University conferences.

*for the past several seasons there have been these events in MA and CT in the "preseason".

[Rick]

Originally Posted by ASD20

So does this model have 4 levels?

Districts/Regionals
DCMP/Regional CMP?
Super Regional
Worlds

4 levels is not possible without either moving kickoff earlier or pushing worlds back. Not enough time in the 9 competition weeks to have teams compete in both DCMPs and Super Regionals.

[ASD20]

Originally Posted by Rick

4 levels is not possible without either moving kickoff earlier or pushing worlds back. Not enough time in the 9 competition weeks to have teams compete in both DCMPs and Super Regionals.

According to most of CD there will be time in 2017.

That is a good point though.

[jreneew2]

Apparently, people didn't know where to put NY in 2012 either. I guess we will always be left out . Hopefully FIRST figures out a way to get NY involved in districts with the same quality as regionals soon.