California District Proposal

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto

3. Venues: There are many HS in California. I know we can get creative and make it work. Its a matter of intelligence over convenience.

Mike, just to be blunt here: when is the last time you were down this way, other than IE 2014?

Yes, there are many HS in CA. There have to be, because of all the people (and all the HS students). But, the biggest question is this:

Of all those HS, how many are able to fit a 40-team FRC event? I would argue that maybe half of them would have the capability just on the "covered open space" requirement--enough space within reasonable proximity for fields and pits. Then you can rule out a few more on the seating requirements--witness said IE 2014 (seating was extremely tight, from what I could see--and so was everything else; they needed more space). Call it a third of the HS's in SoCal would be workable with some minor tweaking and/or major schmoozing with the districts. Still quite a lot, but not as many as you might think.

For ready-to-go regional HS venues (that aren't already hosting), with local team(s) to get a quick manpower boost, I can think of maybe 1-3 offhand, depending on how split you want the pits, all of which have hosted a small-ish offseason. (Adding in a CC or two, that means that I can count 'em on one hand if barely.) For various compromises (lack of local teams, more separation of the pits/field, shorting the seating, or adjusting access), you can get a lot more, maybe up to 2/3 of the HS venues can make it work. The question becomes, how big of a compromise can you actually take before it's unworkable, and people let you know after the season?



Now, that being said, I think it's time to get creative--has anybody, anybody at all, ever tried to host an FRC event in a theater? As in, like, theater where plays are put on? I betcha that a gym-theater combo could do the trick--if they were close enough together and the stage was big enough. And I can think of a couple of those down here that might just barely be workable... Seating, comfy; all seats have good view; plenty of room backstage for queuing... Just need a covered walkway or bagged robots if it's a bit rainy.

And for some reason, folks down here seem to be starting to emphasize the arts a little bit...

[Kevin Sheridan]

Originally Posted by EricH

Now, that being said, I think it's time to get creative--has anybody, anybody at all, ever tried to host an FRC event in a theater? As in, like, theater where plays are put on? I betcha that a gym-theater combo could do the trick--if they were close enough together and the stage was big enough. And I can think of a couple of those down here that might just barely be workable... Seating, comfy; all seats have good view; plenty of room backstage for queuing... Just need a covered walkway or bagged robots if it's a bit rainy.

And for some reason, folks down here seem to be starting to emphasize the arts a little bit...

Not enough seats. My high school built a 31,000 square foot theater recently but the seating capacity is only 492 people.

[Christopher149]

Originally Posted by EricH

Now, that being said, I think it's time to get creative--has anybody, anybody at all, ever tried to host an FRC event in a theater? As in, like, theater where plays are put on?

I've seen FLL in a small lecture hall. One off-season in Duluth, MN, (GGGT) had a bit of practice space on a theater stage in 2014.

Originally Posted by Kevin Sheridan

Not enough seats. My high school built a 31,000 square foot theater recently but the seating capacity is only 492 people.

My university has an 80,000 sq ft theater with 1067 seats and a stage that might be just barely big enough. And I'm not even sure where pits could go.

[ASD20]

Originally Posted by EricH

Now, that being said, I think it's time to get creative--has anybody, anybody at all, ever tried to host an FRC event in a theater? As in, like, theater where plays are put on? I betcha that a gym-theater combo could do the trick--if they were close enough together and the stage was big enough. And I can think of a couple of those down here that might just barely be workable... Seating, comfy; all seats have good view; plenty of room backstage for queuing... Just need a covered walkway or bagged robots if it's a bit rainy.

Granite State actually put their practice field on the stage in their auditorium. I think an auditorium might be useful for some of those things that aren't too large, but you just can't squeeze in elsewhere. Ex: Practice field, volunteer lounge, table displays, FLL demos. If it has large stage and is close enough, it might even be a decent place to put some pits.

Also, if you are looking for space/tools for a machine shop in a school that doesn't have a team, the drama club is a good place to check. A lot of schools (at least near me) have pretty decent shops that they use to build sets.

[Pauline Tasci]

Originally Posted by EricH

Of all those HS, how many are able to fit a 40-team FRC event? I would argue that maybe half of them would have the capability just on the "covered open space" requirement--enough space within reasonable proximity for fields and pits. Then you can rule out a few more on the seating requirements--witness said IE 2014 (seating was extremely tight, from what I could see--and so was everything else; they needed more space). Call it a third of the HS's in SoCal would be workable with some minor tweaking and/or major schmoozing with the districts. Still quite a lot, but not as many as you might think.

Hey Eric!
Have you taken a look at the list of so cal venues that were all layed out to be able to fit at least 40+ teams. And thats just schools we know as of now, there is room to grow.

Many of these schools were even looked at for possible OCR and beach blitz locations. When you get rid of the show ready trusses, you actually gain a lot of locations that have the space for great events.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Pauline Tasci

Hey Eric!
Have you taken a look at the list of so cal venues that were all layed out to be able to fit at least 40+ teams. And thats just schools we know as of now, there is room to grow.

Many of these schools were even looked at for possible OCR and beach blitz locations. When you get rid of the show ready trusses, you actually gain a lot of locations that have the space for great events.

I have looked. Great, OC and northern San Diego is covered, and there's a couple possibilities in L.A.

Question: What percentage of "looked at" school locations is that? And, has anybody been looking in L.A. (and any other "holes") at other former offseason-event locations? (Might be worth contacting 599--they hosted the Classic for a while, but I can't speak for whether they'd be up for hosting an event these days.)


I've gotten a note from someone who's looked at a lot of venues that maybe a third--at the outside--of high schools in SoCal could actually host a regional.

[Michael Corsetto]

Originally Posted by EricH

I have looked. Great, OC and northern San Diego is covered, and there's a couple possibilities in L.A.

Question: What percentage of "looked at" school locations is that? And, has anybody been looking in L.A. (and any other "holes") at other former offseason-event locations? (Might be worth contacting 599--they hosted the Classic for a while, but I can't speak for whether they'd be up for hosting an event these days.)


I've gotten a note from someone who's looked at a lot of venues that maybe a third--at the outside--of high schools in SoCal could actually host a regional.

Eric,

Step by step logic here would be really helpful. I'll take it question by question:

1. Do we agree that Northern California has proven to have a sufficient number of already-tested high school venues to support 6 district events in NorCal?

2. Does SoCal needs 9 to 10 district events, assuming 175 teams?

3. How many district events could be covered from the current list, and how many more options do you think we need in SoCal to be "relatively confident" (whatever that means to you)?

4. How many High Schools are in SoCal?

5. Divide that number by 3 (the magic number from your source), how many potential venues to host a district does that leave us with?

6. Does this seem like enough options?

Just like Mark Leon always said, "Do the Math, Save the World!"

-Mike

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto

Eric,

Step by step logic here would be really helpful. I'll take it question by question:

1. Do we agree that Northern California has proven to have a sufficient number of already-tested high school venues to support 6 district events in NorCal?

You're the NorCal expert. I'm not going to make any statement here.

2. Does SoCal needs 9 to 10 district events, assuming 175 teams?

3. How many district events could be covered from the current list, and how many more options do you think we need in SoCal to be "relatively confident" (whatever that means to you)?

Assuming 175 teams, 9. Assuming that no rookies crop up, which would probably put the count to 10.

That's actually rather dependent. There's at least one glaring hole in that list where there's maybe two spots that are going to be difficult (the colleges--trust me, I've got friends that go to one of 'em, getting a college gym is difficult--the exception would be spring break if someone doesn't beat FIRST to it). There's large areas--northwest LA county for one--that aren't covered.

4. How many High Schools are in SoCal?

No idea.


Here's where the fun starts, though. Yes, there are enough high schools. (We'll assume that that's the case, because I don't have those numbers. I assume that you have made some effort to get them, or you wouldn't be asking.) The question is: At what cost? One of the possible places that the Torbot mentors were tossing around actually managed to nix an FLL Championship event being held there, simply by deciding that "hey, this robotics group has lots of money, let's charge them"--after said event had been held there previously. We should be out of CIF season, so that's less of an issue (Spring Scrimmage got bumped by a CIF basketball game). You've also got the "skeptical administrator" and the "Sure, pay us an arm and a leg" and the "Sorry, booked up by X, Y, and Z" to deal with. Those can be worked around... but it's going to take a lot more time.

Math doesn't lie: There is the possibility. But you've got to have people on the ground looking. What you've got down here is, largely, one team looking in their area. You need more people looking in more places. Central Coast? Lancaster/Palmdale/Antelope Valley? South Bay/Beach Cities? San Fernando Valley? I've seen people commenting in the thread from those areas. I can't say any of them have put venues in the list. I know I'm not in a position to put down a venue as "yes, this one can most likely host". (If I could, I would.) I know several venues that would probably be disqualified on one or more "obvious" grounds, so if one of those shows up I can put down a note that says "Hey, X is going to make life difficult".

Let me put it this way: I'm not opposed to districts, in the proper time. But when someone who is outside my area, with relatively limited visibility into my area, simply says, "This is the way we want to do it over your area, and with *handwaving here* it'll happen"--I'm really sorry, but I'm going to call you on that. You need more people down here, to get more visibility into the situation down here. They should have been there from the beginning. And the people that are down here are telling you that there are problems--problems that you are blowing off as "That can be fixed, just use some imagination and creativity". Problems that we know can be fixed, but we don't know how much time and effort it'll take over and above what we're already putting into this program just to find a solution, let alone execute it.

[saikiranra]

Originally Posted by EricH

But when someone who is outside my area, with relatively limited visibility into my area, simply says, "This is the way we want to do it over your area, and with *handwaving here* it'll happen"--I'm really sorry, but I'm going to call you on that. You need more people down here, to get more visibility into the situation down here. They should have been there from the beginning. And the people that are down here are telling you that there are problems--problems that you are blowing off as "That can be fixed, just use some imagination and creativity". Problems that we know can be fixed, but we don't know how much time and effort it'll take over and above what we're already putting into this program just to find a solution, let alone execute it.

I believe the entire point of this thread and the documents shared is to bring awareness of districts to all of California. The documents and posts don't seem like they are trying to force anything onto us nor are minimizing the amount of work involved in making this transition.

Sure it will cost money and will be hard trying to find venues and volunteers, but if other regions can do it, why can't we? If there is a better way of doing things, we need to change. The District model offers more than our conventional regional model and we should do everything we can to switch, no matter the time and effort.

[FarmerJohn]

Originally Posted by EricH

You need more people down here, to get more visibility into the situation down here. They should have been there from the beginning.

Then why don't you stop complaining about every possible detail and actually try helping for once, Eric? If I have to read another comment about how you "want districts" but don't even try because you think they're not feasible, I'm going to puke. Stop putting down other's ideas because you're so pessimistic about this whole situation. The only thing Michael is doing is pushing for awareness of districts, nobody's telling you what to do. If you don't want to support awareness for districts in California, that's fine, but stop throwing your dirty laundry all over this thread. You're not helping any.

[bkahl]

Originally Posted by FarmerJohn

Then why don't you stop complaining about every possible detail and actually try helping for once, Eric? If I have to read another comment about how you "want districts" but don't even try because you think they're not feasible, I'm going to puke. Stop putting down other's ideas because you're so pessimistic about this whole situation. The only thing Michael is doing is pushing for awareness of districts, nobody's telling you what to do. If you don't want to support awareness for districts in California, that's fine, but stop throwing your dirty laundry all over this thread. You're not helping any.

[Michael Corsetto]

Before this thread devolves into a slew of gifs, lets try to get back on track here

Originally Posted by EricH

Let me put it this way: I'm not opposed to districts, in the proper time. But when someone who is outside my area, with relatively limited visibility into my area, simply says, "This is the way we want to do it over your area, and with *handwaving here* it'll happen"--I'm really sorry, but I'm going to call you on that. You need more people down here, to get more visibility into the situation down here. They should have been there from the beginning. And the people that are down here are telling you that there are problems--problems that you are blowing off as "That can be fixed, just use some imagination and creativity". Problems that we know can be fixed, but we don't know how much time and effort it'll take over and above what we're already putting into this program just to find a solution, let alone execute it.

Eric,

I've tried my best to pull together resources from other areas to inform our path forward. I've spoken with many people from other districts in person and on the phone to gather information (special thanks to Jim and Gail at FiM). I've even learned a lot since posting this, and am planning revisions to the proposal to reflect new information.

I currently have friends on FRC Teams 4, 399, and 3476 looking at venues. Dave from 399 has actually been helping for almost a year scouting out venues, but he is out on summer vacation right now.

If it wasn't already clear, I am relying on the community to rally around this proposal and make Districts in California a reality. Our community has been told for years that we can't, but as this proposal evolves, it is becoming increasingly clear that we can! I have been very encouraged by the community response so far.

Please, California, keep it coming. A friend from San Diego posted on this thread a few days ago about venues down there (so much knowledge in that post!), I am hoping he can respond further knowing that cafeterias/MPRs are also options for pits at venues.

If anyone is looking to help and is not sure how, shoot me a PM. It could take as little as a smartphone, tape measure, and spare hour of time

-Mike

[bkahl]

Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto

Before this thread devolves into a slew of gifs, lets try to get back on track here

Sowwy

[notmattlythgoe]

I know it at least one of the CHS events this year the pits were split between a cafeteria and a small gym. You can get creative with the pit locations. The more rigid requirements are the bleacher and field requirements.

I know in Virginia there are high schools in certain regions of the state that have much larger gym areas specifically designated for tournaments. I believe there are 4 of them in the state here. Luckily one of them has an FRC team. I don't know if this is also the case for CA but it might be a good thing to look into.

[Michael Corsetto]

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe

I know it at least one of the CHS events this year the pits were split between a cafeteria and a small gym. You can get creative with the pit locations. The more rigid requirements are the bleacher and field requirements.

I know in Virginia there are high schools in certain regions of the state that have much larger gym areas specifically designated for tournaments. I believe there are 4 of them in the state here. Luckily one of them has an FRC team. I don't know if this is also the case for CA but it might be a good thing to look into.

Thanks for the feedback from CHS!

How large are these "tournament gyms", and how does that compare with a typical HS gym?

With "tournament gyms", do you fit all the pits in the same gym as the field?

Thanks!

-Mike