California District Proposal

[Basel A]

Originally Posted by EricH

there's a decent shot that maybe they do know something

Congrats Pauline! There's a chance, that maybe, you know something

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

A lot of the problems Eric has with southern California have already been looked into by someone who is already posting here, as she is a contact for half a dozen potential venues in southern California. She's also an RPC member! It's inspiring to see what a 20 year old can do for her region beyond the bounds of a safety glasses table.

You'll notice that my comment wasn't directed at her, at all. It was directed at the non-productive comments designed simply to belittle individuals who were presenting issues. People saying others are acting closed-minded, or should just stop complaining... those are not productive, helpful posts.

And nice passive-agressive comment about safety glasses. Has anyone on here said a 20 year old was limited only to the safety glasses table and not capable of doing more?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Basel A

Congrats Pauline! There's a chance, that maybe, you know something

OK, guys.

THAT'S ENOUGH.

Basel, I wasn't referring to Pauline, but the group in general. And in a very general way. In an explanation of why I was saying what I was saying. OK? Do I have to go to Thing Explainer?

If you guys are going to snip at every little thing I say, then it's really, really starting to feel like I'm being harassed/bullied. Last I checked, that sort of thing was frowned on around here.

Again, THAT'S ENOUGH.

[Pauline Tasci]

I really do wish this thread was the productive discussion it was earlier.
It's really unfortunate that so many people put such hard work into creating the document, finding venues, and more to just be shot down or argued with for reasons that are not valid.

This thread could have been something where California could really figure out how to make our region the best, and how to transition the easiest way we could.

Thank you to everyone in here who has offered constructive advice. From other districts to people from California offering venues. The advice has really helped me shape what I think our region should become. Thank you so much, can't wait for you guys to push us even farther in our journey into districts!

-Pauline

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

You'll notice that my comment wasn't directed at her, at all. It was directed at the non-productive comments designed simply to belittle individuals who were presenting issues. People saying others are acting closed-minded, or should just stop complaining... those are not productive, helpful posts.

And nice passive-agressive comment about safety glasses. Has anyone on here said a 20 year old was limited only to the safety glasses table and not capable of doing more?

It was a reference to the alleged issues some other parts of the country are having with engaging young alumni in their communities and not primarily a direct attempt to be passive-aggressive, despite multiple claims. The comment wasn't even directed at you, but to Jon.

Private messaging is a great conduit to transmit information to people who want it and is a channel I have and will continue to use (mostly outside of this website). It offers an opportunity to exchange experiences and share advice from scenarios that may be analogous or parallel to those of another party.

It definitely is a time to remember 3 things before someone wakes up a moderator and enacts a mercy killing of the thread:

-Perception is reality.
-The exchanges of ideas are a two way street.
-Be conscious of your intended actions and even more conscious of unintended consequences of those actions (Believe it or not, I am very conscious of these things, which probably constitutes a personal health hazard).

Thanks to Michael Corsetto and everyone who has exchanged ideas on the topic whether it be critical, supportive, or statistical.

[dodar]

What impact would going to districts have on California in terms of championship percentage? For purposes of an easy answer, compare to last year's number.

[Ed Law]

Originally Posted by dodar

What impact would going to districts have on California in terms of championship percentage? For purposes of an easy answer, compare to last year's number.

It is on page 2 of the District 101 document which is a nice read. I encourage you to read it because it has a lot of other information also.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

It was a reference to the alleged issues some other parts of the country are having with engaging young alumni in their communities and not primarily a direct attempt to be passive-aggressive, despite multiple claims. The comment wasn't even directed at you, but to Jon.

Yes, I know exactly what it was directed at, and what it was a reference to. Frankly, it's a ridiculous comment, as I can point to many college-aged students right here in MN that are either in key roles or training for them. I'm not going to comment on issues that a few individuals have had, I feel it would be unprofessional of me to publicly discuss others in that way.

But really, you're going to drag out something posted 3 months ago about Minnesota into a thread about California? Why don't we keep those discussions separated and focus on actual productive posts. That's, literally, the only thing I've been asking for in all my posts in this thread. Because, believe it or not, I'm interested in the issues other areas are/have faced, the solutions they've used to solve them, and the results they've seen over the long run. It may be applicable to my area in the future.

[Rafi Ahmed]

Originally Posted by dodar

What impact would going to districts have on California in terms of championship percentage? For purposes of an easy answer, compare to last year's number.

From District 101 document:

...with approximately 50 teams from California being invited to compete at the world championship (compared to the 42 teams that go currently).

[jpetito]

Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto

Joe,

Thanks for the important reminder. It is very clear that there are plenty of High School venues in California to cover 16 (or more) district events, as you have stated. These are venues that can support 36-40 teams, have stands, pits, etc. This is a good baseline to establish, and one that we are working towards with the growing list of venues that many individuals are beginning to contribute towards. To everyone continuing to hunt for venues, THANK YOU!

Second, Joe, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this assumption:

Venues that currently host FRC events (Regional or Off-Season), and to a lesser extent venues that used to host FRC events, are likely to have the people problem mostly solved. I know this goes for DHS, PGHS and COHS (three CCC sites). These administrations WANT us at their school and let us book only 6 months out to get the weekend we want. I'm going to bet that many of the other venues currently in use have decent or better relationships with the school administration as well.

Do you agree with my assumption?

If you agree, I think we are getting close to solving the people portion of our venue equation. Just like many other districts have done across the country. Unless you think that, statistically, California administrators are prone to be hell-bent against FRC events

Thanks for the feedback,

-Mike

Hi John--

And thanks to all who are toning down the rhetoric, focusing on the actualities.

Basis of agreement:

--Many venues acceptable to FRC events, with adequate playing space and co-located pits.

--Numerous site and district administrators supportive of this kind of education, willing to take risks with these events.

--The volunteer issue is a problem that can be solved, though again the current volunteer pool is stretched beyond breaking. I appreciate all those outside the region for their strategic comments on helping solve the difficulty, though the perspective from "outside" cannot grasp the tactical difficulties on the ground (not a put-down of helpful ideas).

-- Admin are not Hell Bent against FRC. They're mostly ignorant (not the pejorative ignorant; merely not cognizant of what FRC MEANS, as opposed to what FRC IS). Admin are consumed by a hundred issues that occupy their time, and it's rare to find one who can take a portion of their day and focus on the structural needs of an outside entity (FRC)


To continue the discussion:

--Finding supportive admin with adequate facilities located where they are needed most: central locations for local teams. This takes legwork, and might merely be what Andrew/Data Nerd suggests: asking. This asking I think should start at the team level at the local school.

Oops-gotta run. Getting a mill and lathe and junk donated to us and can't wait…

Think we're getting close, though want success the first time out.

Joe

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by jpetito

Hi John--

And thanks to all who are toning down the rhetoric, focusing on the actualities.

Basis of agreement:

--Many venues acceptable to FRC events, with adequate playing space and co-located pits.

--Numerous site and district administrators supportive of this kind of education, willing to take risks with these events.

--The volunteer issue is a problem that can be solved, though again the current volunteer pool is stretched beyond breaking. I appreciate all those outside the region for their strategic comments on helping solve the difficulty, though the perspective from "outside" cannot grasp the tactical difficulties on the ground (not a put-down of helpful ideas).

-- Admin are not Hell Bent against FRC. They're mostly ignorant (not the pejorative ignorant; merely not cognizant of what FRC MEANS, as opposed to what FRC IS). Admin are consumed by a hundred issues that occupy their time, and it's rare to find one who can take a portion of their day and focus on the structural needs of an outside entity (FRC)


To continue the discussion:

--Finding supportive admin with adequate facilities located where they are needed most: central locations for local teams. This takes legwork, and might merely be what Andrew/Data Nerd suggests: asking. This asking I think should start at the team level at the local school.

Oops-gotta run. Getting a mill and lathe and junk donated to us and can't wait…

Think we're getting close, though want success the first time out.

Joe

I'd actually suggest centrally coordinating the ask. Even if the actual ask is delegated down to a local team rep having multiple people asking could get REALLY annoying. Also it allows for having a central list of questions to ask about the venue.

I'd suggest trying to see if any existing district has a starting list of requirements. Brando I assume you're floating around here, do you know if NE has one?

[ASD20]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

I'd suggest trying to see if any existing district has a starting list of requirements. Brando I assume you're floating around here, do you know if NE has one?

I know this is a reference for the original proposal, but I don't think it has been mentioned in the thread itself yet, so here is FIRST's official district planning guide (http://www.firstinspires.org/resourc...lanning-guides ). Venue Site Selection has a list of 'best practices'. I'm interested to see how well it matches up to the individual districts' list of requirements since it hasn't been updated since 2013 and FIRST HQ hasn't exactly planned a lot of district events.

[IKE]

Dealing with administration:

As getting administration excited can be difficult, it might be worthwhile to get some quotes comments from some of the long term FiM venues. There was one principle or Administrator that asked to speak at one of the events I attended. This was the second year for the event.
He said something to the effect that the previous year he was unsure. He had never seen an event before. When he watched the playoffs Saturday afternoon, it literally brought tears to his eyes. He had never seen his gym so alive before. There was crazy uproar during key matches. There was singing and dancing from 30+ schools that clearly were competing but also a common family. There were opponents helping each other get ready for the next match.
Other quotes I have heard from administrators: I got to meet political leader XYZ and or industry leader XYZ and give a speech to the same group as them. I got 30 different school districts to come and see what my school had to offer.

In Michigan, we have a lot of venues that have now been doing it for years, and there is a lot of pride the venue administrators take in their event.

It might be good to ask the leaders of other districts for a "reference list" or administrators that might be good spokespersons. Often those on the inside can come across as giving a sales pitch where as someone with equal position can help discuss concerns at the same level.

************************************************** **
On the negative:

We also have some 1 hit wonders. I think "floor damage" concerns are one of the primary causes for a venue to not want teams back, though you would have to talk to the FiM management for reasons they don't go back to a venue. I know at least a few of them were dealing with floor damage concerns. Though that is not the only reason.
************************************************** ***

Another item on venues. FIRST really does follow a field of dreams "If you build it they will come" trend.
What I mean by this is within a region, you may want a couple "stretch" venues that might not be the center of the current population. Once a new venue arrives, the local area tends to start a lot more teams. The proximity gives them a cheap option to play at (no hotel), and nothing gets people as excited about a FIRST event as seeing it live. While I would not make every venue remote, it might be a good idea to target a couple areas that could use a shot in the arm.

[ASD20]

Originally Posted by IKE

Dealing with administration:

As getting administration excited can be difficult, it might be worthwhile to get some quotes comments from some of the long term FiM venues. There was one principle or Administrator that asked to speak at one of the events I attended. This was the second year for the event.
He said something to the effect that the previous year he was unsure. He had never seen an event before. When he watched the playoffs Saturday afternoon, it literally brought tears to his eyes.

Yes. The best way to get administrative support for an event (and also for your team) is to get the administration to an event. The first year my team hosted an event, we got both our principal and superintendent to be judges and our superintendent also gave a speech at opening ceremonies. Let me say our team received more recognition and support from the administration in the month after the competition, than in the two and a half years we existed before the event combined and the event planning was A LOT smoother the second year (though it was also largely because it was our second time planning it). Our superintendent also loved it so much, he did it again the next year. Judging is an especially great way to get your administration involved because they will get to talk to so many kids and hear from them about why FRC is so great. The best way to ensure the long term success of your event is to have the administration personally invested. Bringing administrators to other events is also a great way to get them to want to start hosting one and to just get them to understand and support your team even if you aren't trying to host an event.

TL;DR: GET YOUR ADMINISTRATION TO EVENTS!!!

[Collin Fultz]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

I'd actually suggest centrally coordinating the ask. Even if the actual ask is delegated down to a local team rep having multiple people asking could get REALLY annoying. Also it allows for having a central list of questions to ask about the venue.

I'd suggest trying to see if any existing district has a starting list of requirements. Brando I assume you're floating around here, do you know if NE has one?

Here is the document outlining the IndianaFIRST RFP process.

This is sent from the InF Competition Committee to prospective hosts (usually teams) and they can use it for discussions with their school's administrators.