Convincing athlete to commit to robotics?

[team-4480]

Hi!

We have a member that is currently at a crossroads. He enjoys playing basketball. He also very much enjoys robotics. The problem is that the times that we meet for robotics completely overlaps the basketball practice and game schedule except for a few days. We are an incredibly small team with an average of 2.7 people staying for robotics after-school and this person is a very talented and passionate mechanical member. So having another person every day would improve our robot quality output drastically. He and I are friends and have talked extensively about this and here are his reasons for basketball or robotics:

Stay in Basketball:
- Make father happy(his father enjoys watching basketball during the winter)
- His girlfriend is the student manager of the team
- He feels like he might disappoint the team if he leaves
- He enjoys it

Commit fully to Robotics:
- He is a Senior so this would be his last year as a student
- The basketball team isn't going anywhere(last year the record was 5-15)
- He could be an awesome driver if he stayed and practiced
- There is always the chance to go to St.Louis
- He loves building robots

I should mention that he already is helping as much as he can, but by leaving basketball, he would be able to help out much more.

I post this because I feel that someone in the vast Delphi community has had members with the same situation and I was wondering what you said to them to try to nudge them towards robotics. Ultimately, it is, of course, his decision but I want to make sure I highlight all the good things that could come of him committing fully to FIRST robotics next season. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

[Poseidon5817]

I think one of the best arguments you could make to him would be regarding his future as a whole. You said the basketball team isn't very good, so you could probably say that robotics will be better towards his career as a whole. You could even get him to try and introduce his father and girlfriend to FRC as well.

Source: Have seen similar situations

[Sperkowsky]

Don't convince him. Let him do what he wants. Tell him to do what he likes more. You don't want him regretting his path later.

[frcguy]

Originally Posted by Poseidon5817

I think one of the best arguments you could make to him would be regarding his future as a whole. You said the basketball team isn't very good, so you could probably say that robotics will be better towards his career as a whole. You could even get him to try and introduce his father and girlfriend to FRC as well.

Source: Have seen similar situations

+1. I more or less agree with this but I have some questions. Is his basketball talent drawing interests from colleges and the like? If so and he has scholarship offers and things like that I would stick with basketball. Otherwise FRC will probably benefit him more in the future.

[team-4480]

Originally Posted by frcguy

+1. I more or less agree with this but I have some questions. Is his basketball talent drawing interests from colleges and the like? If so and he has scholarship offers and things like that I would stick with basketball. Otherwise FRC will probably benefit him more in the future.

I was just going to add that. He just joined basketball in 10th grade without any prior basketball team experience. He doesn't have quite enough skill for scholarships. He does for track, but thankfully that is in the spring.

[Ed Law]

Creating a list of each choice like you did is a great way to see things clearly. You may want to talk to your friend that he is missing one point. In general colleges do not like to see people quitting things in the middle of their high school career especially their senior year. Getting involved in high school sports is not all about winning. It is about making a commitment to others, training hard, doing your best, trusting your teammates, sportsmanship etc. Whether he is on a winning team or not does not matter especially if college basketball scholarship is not involved in this case (which is my assumption because otherwise he definitely cannot quit). Some colleges like to have students who were involved in sports. They never asked what your team or personal record is on the application unless you are being recruited. The common app does not even distinguish between varsity or junior varsity teams.
Your friend is already on the team. Trying to convince him to quit basketball to concentrate on robotics to help you and your team may not be in his best interest. He can still benefit from FIRST even with minimal involvement. He can still be inspired to go into STEM. But like other people have already said, it should be his decision. A good friend will help him make the best decision for his future, not yours.

[the.miler]

Perhaps there's a way for you to shift your meeting times such that basketball and FRC don't interfere. Having meetings after homework, sports, dinner, etc. was advantageous in my case.

I agree with Ed Law's points as well; remember that FIRST is foremost about inspiration. A few years down the road, the quality of your senior year robot will be far from your mind and your friend shouldn't be basing his decision around this aspect of your team's success.

[team-4480]

Originally Posted by Ed Law

In general colleges do not like to see people quitting things in the middle of their high school career especially their senior year.

I would add that the colleges that he is looking at are either a community college for welding or an average state school for something with robotics(which he is already qualified for via ACT score and GPA). Looking at the list I made, I see that the reason he would stay in basketball is more for others than for himself(pleasing his father and girlfriend).

I totally agree that it is his decision and I think he won't go wrong either way he goes, but I just wanted to make sure I informed him of what all robotics can do for him so he has a better picture. I think he has a chance to form a legacy in the robotics team as we, Team 4480, have never won an award or a blue banner. People likely won't remember him on the basketball team two years from now, but they may remember him from that blue banner/award hanging in the showcase(IF we get one of course).

[ASD20]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

Don't convince him. Let him do what he wants. Tell him to do what he likes more. You don't want him regretting his path later.

I agree, FRC sells itself. Though, if he is having a difficult time with his decision, you can help him think through it. I know that going through the decision process out loud can be helpful to some people.

Originally Posted by Ed Law

In general colleges do not like to see people quitting things in the middle of their high school career especially their senior year. Getting involved in high school sports is not all about winning. It is about making a commitment to others, training hard, doing your best, trusting your teammates, sportsmanship etc. Whether he is on a winning team or not does not matter especially if college basketball scholarship is not involved in this case (which is my assumption because otherwise he definitely cannot quit). Some colleges like to have students who were involved in sports. They never asked what your team or personal record is on the application unless you are being recruited. The common app does not even distinguish between varsity or junior varsity teams.

I respectfully disagree on this point. While it is true that colleges do like to see commitment, it is just one of many things they look for. I think that people put much too large of an emphasis on getting involved in as many things as possible in high school. I know that when I was a freshman, I was involved in like 12 things, like every other freshman. By the time I was a senior, I was only involved in about 4 things. However, I would not say I was only 1/3 as involved in extracurriculars senior year. In fact, I probably spent 2 or 3 times as much time doing extracurriculars (Thank You Build Season). I didn't quit 8 clubs so I could sleep more, I quit them as I discovered my interests and so I could become more committed to the few things I was really passionate about. I would argue that making the decision to quit a sport to focus on robotics or vice versa (Though why would anyone do that? ), actually shows more commitment because you demonstrate your willingness to make sacrifices for robotics.

Extracurriculars are just one part of the application. There are also essays, leadership positions, interviews, and more. If narrowing your activities makes these other categories stronger, it more than makes up for the slight 'hit' to your extracurriculars. I know that by far my best essay was one I wrote about robotics. People who read it said they felt the passion and personality in it much more than in any other essay. Colleges are looking for a person in the application, not a resume.

I'm going to give you and your friend some advice that you will completely ignore and that I did too until about 3 months ago. STOP THINKING ABOUT WHAT COLLEGES WANT!!!! The extra 10 points on your SAT, or extra AP class, or extra activity DON'T MATTER and won't make a difference. So please ignore everything I wrote above (I only wrote it because I know you won't) and consider this: If your friend (or anyone else) decides to do something solely because it "looks good for college," they will be miserable. I don't think that is true in your friends case, but please just DON'T THINK ABOUT COLLEGE in this decision. You will be much happier with your decision if you don't.

BTW: If your friend is looking for college essay ideas, writing about the difficulty of this decision is not a bad one.

[Foster]

On the other hand, there is college basketball money and robotics money. Have him check with the schools to see if anyone will give him grants for being in robotics. Remember, millions and millions of dollars are out there, all you need to do is ASK.

[Fusion_Clint]

Do not encourage your student to base life decisions on what colleges may want. Have them base it on what the student wants to do with their life.



Unfortunately, college scholarships and admittance is about ACT/SAT scores and items beyond the students control.

The captain of my FRC team this year; a district honor student (4.0+ GPA and 30 ACT score), soccer team captain, president of the math club. Received far less in scholarships (from the same college) than his brother (one year elder) that coasted through school with an average GPA and a 33 on the ACT. My captain didn't even get the $500 FIRST scholarship the school offers.

[Ed Law]

Originally Posted by Fusion_Clint

Do not encourage your student to base life decisions on what colleges may want. Have them base it on what the student wants to do with their life.

Unfortunately, college scholarships and admittance is about ACT/SAT scores and items beyond the students control.

The captain of my FRC team this year; a district honor student (4.0+ GPA and 30 ACT score), soccer team captain, president of the math club. Received far less in scholarships (from the same college) than his brother (one year elder) that coasted through school with an average GPA and a 33 on the ACT. My captain didn't even get the $500 FIRST scholarship the school offers.

I don't quite understand your point and your example. From listening to dozens of talks from admission officers, I gathered that colleges are interested in 6 main areas:
1) GPA
2) Standardized test scores
3) Essays and supplemental questions if any
4) Extra-curricular activities and Leadership
5) Work experience and Entrepreneurship
6) Recommendation letters
They are not in any particular order. Every college will put different things as higher priority. A student has more control over some of these than others but I would argue that there is nothing on that list that the student has no control at all. These are things that admission officers use to see whether the student will be a good fit for the college. What students want to do with their life has nothing to do with these 6 things. Are you suggesting that students should do whatever they want and not care about what colleges are looking for? And none of the 6 areas are things that could help in their future whatever they decided to pursue? To avoid further misunderstanding, I don't advocate that students join a club or activity just to look good on their resume to help them get into a certain field. If they have no interest in that field, then they should not be joining that activity. If you don't have passion in what you do, it will show on the application. Joining many activities do not make you look good. It actually makes you look bad. On the other hand, I do encourage younger students to try as many things as they have time for, then narrow down to the things that they enjoy the most.
I am not looking for an argument with you. I am not trying to convince you that I am right. You work with your students the way you want to.
Back to the OP, since your friend is looking into going to a community college, what I said to you before is not as important. It is really his choice. Sometimes in life, you have to do what makes yourself happy but there are people around you that you have to consider also. It is not always about you.

[GaryVoshol]

Let's change the situation. Suppose a student couldn't come to robotics because she had tutoring sessions. Would you be encouraging her to skip tutoring to go to robotics? Of course not, because tutoring is important; maybe she would fail a class without it.

So it comes down to priorities. What is important to the student, overall? Basketball seems to be important to him (or he wouldn't do it); only he knows the reasons why. You mentioned pleasing people and not letting down the team, but you also said he enjoyed it. So he should be free to do basketball if that's what he wants to do.

You have options. As others mentioned, perhaps you could change some team meeting times. My thought is that you should recruit new team members, or encourage other existing team members to come more often, so that you will get more than 2.7 people at a meeting.

Some robotics teams require strict participation rules. Others will accept members for the time that they can give, as long as they are productive members when they do come. Obviously there must be some limits; someone who shows up 4 times in the six week build season isn't a committed team member.

It can be a challenge. I remember one sub-team leader on my daughter's team who didn't show up for about a week because he had to work, and the part of the robot he was working on fell behind schedule. Those kind of things can be resolved by better communication and having backups for when someone can't be there. But you can make it work.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

Don't convince him. Let him do what he wants. Tell him to do what he likes more. You don't want him regretting his path later.

Can't believe I'm saying this, but Sam is right.

Let students do what they want.

[ScandallB225]

Originally Posted by team-4480

Stay in Basketball:
- Make father happy(his father enjoys watching basketball during the winter)
- His girlfriend is the student manager of the team
- He feels like he might disappoint the team if he leaves
- He enjoys it

Commit fully to Robotics:
- He is a Senior so this would be his last year as a student
- The basketball team isn't going anywhere(last year the record was 5-15)
- He could be an awesome driver if he stayed and practiced
- There is always the chance to go to St.Louis
- He loves building robots

I should mention that he already is helping as much as he can, but by leaving basketball, he would be able to help out much more.

My advice; do not try to convince your friend. Encourage him to pursue HIS passion and support that decision. It sounds like he knows the attributes of each. Although difficult to remove pleasing others from the decision, I would hope the decision would be about his passion and not others' impressed wishes or impressions.
Unless your friend has committed to play basketball, he is not letting anyone down.

Has his father or girl friend ever been to an FRC event? In my experience FIRST sells itself. Especially FRC.

Although doing something to check off a box on a college application goes against my nature, I believe that most colleges look at participation as participation. Basketball robotics either is participation.