[FF]: 2017 Fantasy FIRST Proposed Rule Changes

[Rangel]

Never even saw this thread. I am totally in favor of their being a easier to see interface in terms of waivers like a google spreadsheet. I'd be interested in playing the waiver game but it's hard to keep track of when claims are scattered across the giant main thread. A google sheet showing due dates in would be much appreciated. I'd be interested in putting that together if it's not already being worked on.

Also I wouldn't mind the picking order being modified to make positions 1 and 2 less overwhelming. Something like this I would like:
1-8
8-1
8-1

It just doesn't make sense to me why the first pick doesn't get the last pick except for maybe the championships draft where the top pick slot was earned.

Also I agree about the rotation for draft order. I 100% support that idea.

[EricH]

I'll be putting out the official thread before long, but here are the current changes:

1) There will be a rotation, which will re-randomize every round. (Basically, run through with one random order, rotating every draft, and then run a different random order and rotate that when the first one is done.) One note--and we'll take a look at this later--is the "remnant" drafts where there aren't enough for a full rotation. Those will either be full random or another rotation. District drafts will have their own rotation if I can foot that.

2) After events begin, all teams being picked up will be on waiver. (It's easier to keep track of that than of who's already played.)


Waiver transparency: I'll be working in free time on a waiver processing sheet, and will post it to CD-Media when finished (or at least workable). Some people like to not have others know who they are, for some reason. Input may be a hair interesting. Also, I think a dedicated waiver thread will be in order--that's something we've done in the past, and didn't manage to do this past year.

[BrennanB]

I guess the next thing to bring up is do we want the waivers to be public? My vote would be no, and I seem to recall RFA having a similar opinion. Having them private allows for that fun competitve edge on finding important teams to swap in, without the "whoever posts first" side of it.

Update waivers weekly on say... Tuesdays, and have them submitted via gdoc forum?

[Rangel]

Originally Posted by BrennanB

I guess the next thing to bring up is do we want the waivers to be public? My vote would be no, and I seem to recall RFA having a similar opinion. Having them private allows for that fun competitve edge on finding important teams to swap in, without the "whoever posts first" side of it.

Update waivers weekly on say... Tuesdays, and have them submitted via gdoc forum?

I really like the idea of a set day for waivers to be submitted. Would make it easier for many to participate in waiver wars since it can be scheduled on when to check and submit them. This is especially critical during the middle of build season when it's much harder to make time for FF.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb)

I really like the idea of a set day for waivers to be submitted. Would make it easier for many to participate in waiver wars since it can be scheduled on when to check and submit them. This is especially critical during the middle of build season when it's much harder to make time for FF.

Or during competition season.

I'm going to leave the discussion open on waivers for a while, as I'm sure there are more items to tease out to improve that side.


The other discussion item I'd like to note: there aren't a lot of player-to-player trades in FF. They're legal to make (team or draft slot or some combination), just wondering if there was any way to incentivize those. I don't think I've seen one in 3-4 years.

[BrennanB]

Originally Posted by EricH

The other discussion item I'd like to note: there aren't a lot of player-to-player trades in FF. They're legal to make (team or draft slot or some combination), just wondering if there was any way to incentivize those. I don't think I've seen one in 3-4 years.

Not sure if it needs incentivising, just doesn't seem overly practical. In general people aren't going to trade within an event because they should have gone by their list, and if they got randomed out they probably have bad teams that nobody wants. I guess technically inter-event trading could be possible but complicated.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by BrennanB

Not sure if it needs incentivising, just doesn't seem overly practical. In general people aren't going to trade within an event because they should have gone by their list, and if they got randomed out they probably have bad teams that nobody wants. I guess technically inter-event trading could be possible but complicated.

True that. I was thinking something along those lines.

What I'll probably do is to make it clear--again--that trades (draft slots, teams, or a combination) are fair game, provided that picked teams don't change tiers of tiered drafts.


One other item to discuss...

#2Champs. Any ideas on handling that little drafting nightmare (picking order, same time/different times, what happens in one affecting the other, etc.)? We've got time on this one, and an absence of usable information, so this one will probably remain open for a while.

[TDav540]

[QUOTEboth cH;1597805]True that. I was thinking something along those lines.

What I'll probably do is to make it clear--again--that trades (draft slots, teams, or a combination) are fair game, provided that picked teams don't change tiers of tiered drafts.


One other item to discuss...

#2Champs. Any ideas on handling that little drafting nightmare (picking order, same time/different times, what happens in one affecting the other, etc.)? We've got time on this one, and an absence of usable information, so this one will probably remain open for a while.[/quote]

Draft both after week 7. It's just two drafts where before we had one. One on Monday, one on Tuesday. Or something like that.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by TDav540

Draft both after week 7. It's just two drafts where before we had one. One on Monday, one on Tuesday. Or something like that.

Um... Not sure you've seen our Champs draft. All 8 of 'em. (Yep, that'd be one draft per division, run over 4 nights.)

[TDav540]

Originally Posted by EricH

Um... Not sure you've seen our Champs draft. All 8 of 'em. (Yep, that'd be one draft per division, run over 4 nights.)

I have seen the champs draft, but I am expecting 4 divisions per. I could be wrong (which would, admittedly, throw a wrench in the system). So then we can do it as we normally would, except now 8 drafts over two and three days instead of 4 (staggered start times). Or we could split it across the two weeks and do one draft before HOU and one before STL.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by TDav540

I have seen the champs draft, but I am expecting 4 divisions per. I could be wrong (which would, admittedly, throw a wrench in the system). So then we can do it as we normally would, except now 8 drafts over two and three days instead of 4 (staggered start times). Or we could split it across the two weeks and do one draft before HOU and one before STL.

I'm assuming that there will be more than 4 divisions. 100-team divisions can be done, while still giving everybody 10 matches, but that puts a tremendous stress on everybody (and Frank has said something about that). But I'm not assuming that there will necessarily be 8. There are ways to handle intermediate sizes.

I would also not plan on more than 2 drafts per day. There have been exceptions, but they've been makeups when there were no other options available. It's just too hectic, particularly if tiers are involved for some reason. Basically, >2 drafts in one day is the absolute last resort in order to finish on schedule. (Going into a CMP travel day is preferable, and we avoid those.)

The one other "wildcard" element in this discussion--and it affects overall timing--is whether the South winners play at North. If not, then we can do them at the same time. If so, then we cannot.

This is why I've opened the discussion, to be able to discuss it as information comes in and start forming plans as far as what happens if X or Y is shown to be the method.

[tindleroot]

One little problem (in my mind, at least) with the "rotation" cycle for drafts: team order stays consistent. Not all FF teams are created equal; take this situation into consideration.

FF teams A - G, team A is the "best" team, meaning they make the best picks, and B is the next best, then C, and so on.

The team order for the first cycle might end up like this:

F
G
E
A
B
D
C

In this situation, team D and E (who are roughly equal in picking ability) will have drastically skewed outcomes. Team D will be getting worse picks on average since D comes directly after B (who makes the best pick much of the time) 6 out of 7 drafts, and after A in 5 out of 7 drafts, while E always comes after F and G, who may leave better picks more often.

The only difference in a real situation is that we don't usually know who the best FF teams are (or can only guess at best), but that doesn't change the irregularity that goes on here. Especially in districts, where we'll only have one cycle, this irregularity needs to be addressed. Luckily, it is as simple as changing the rotation cycle. Rather than moving 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 and so on, it can be more like 1 to 5 and 5 to 9 and 9 to 3 and 3 to 2, or some "random" cycle like this, which not only puts FF teams in the same draft spot on average, but also immediately behind and ahead of different teams throughout the cycle.

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but maybe this would be an easy change that makes drafting even more fair than adding a simple cycle.

[TDav540]

Originally Posted by BrennanB

Not sure if it needs incentivising, just doesn't seem overly practical. In general people aren't going to trade within an event because they should have gone by their list, and if they got randomed out they probably have bad teams that nobody wants. I guess technically inter-event trading could be possible but complicated.

Is there any spreadsheet that has all the drafted teams for each FF team at each event. Just being able to easily track which FRC teams that FF teams have will significantly help trading.

[BrennanB]

Originally Posted by TDav540

Is there any spreadsheet that has all the drafted teams for each FF team at each event. Just being able to easily track which FRC teams that FF teams have will significantly help trading.

There was one maintained by RFA last year.