Value & Credibility of 4th robots on an Alliance

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by Richard Wallace

Hmm ....

Would I want my team to be selected in support of a mutually assured destruction strategy?

That actually happened in the 2015 semi between 118's alliance and 1114's. The two sides agreed that deployment would end up worse than playing it out as it did. And it was probably the most dramatic match of the year.

[IKE]

Originally Posted by Richard Wallace

Hmm ....

Would I want my team to be selected in support of a mutually assured destruction strategy?

A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?

[plnyyanks]

Originally Posted by IKE

A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?

Oh wait, not playing is a losing move also. Now, about that game of chess...

Ike may have made the subtlest xkcd reference I've seen on CD yet. Props!

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by Citrus Dad

2015: 5012: we actually thought they would be playing the
Einstein rounds to maximize can grabbing and that 1671 would be playing only in the division playoffs. We switched up with 1671's amazing success. But 5012 was still part of our credible threat in the semifinals that kept 1114 from deploying 900's harpoon grabbers.

The decision on whether or not use Team 900 was based on the readiness of the harpoons. The harpoons weren't ready and tested enough by our standards, as such we decided to play it safe and keep 1923 on the field. I actually had no insight into 5012's can grabbers and what they involved until months after the event.

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Karthik

The decision on whether or not use Team 900 was based on the readiness of the harpoons. The harpoons weren't ready and tested enough by our standards, as such we decided to play it safe and keep 1923 on the field. I actually had no insight into 5012's can grabbers and what they involved until months after the event.

Thanks for the explanation, Karthik. Some of us in the nosebleeds kept wondering why that evil harpoon array never made it to the field. A MAD standoff makes a good story, though.

Isaac saw what I was thinking immediately -- he and I think alike often. BTW, I don't recall an xkcd reference. My thought was about the end of the 1983 film War Games, in which the NORAD computer learns (by playing a lot of Tic-Tac-Toe before running a lot of simulations) that global thermonuclear war cannot be won.

[plnyyanks]

Originally Posted by Richard Wallace

Isaac saw what I was thinking immediately -- he and I think alike often. BTW, I don't recall an xkcd reference. My thought was about the end of the 1983 film War Games, in which the NORAD computer learns (by playing a lot of Tic-Tac-Toe before running a lot of simulations) that global thermonuclear war cannot be won.

Off topic, but https://xkcd.com/601/

Maybe the fact my mind went to xkcd first means I have a problem (although WarGames is a great movie)

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by plnyyanks

Off topic, but https://xkcd.com/601/

Maybe the fact my mind went to xkcd first means I have a problem (although WarGames is a great movie)

Ah, so a reference to a reference.

Reminds me of a college friend who watched the 1948 film "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre". When Bogart asks the bandits (who claim to be Federales) to show their badges, they respond with the classic, "we don't need no stinking badges!"* My friend had been using that line for many years without knowing where it came from.
-------------

*Not the actual quote. See the clip.

[Michael Corsetto]

Originally Posted by Karthik

The decision on whether or not use Team 900 was based on the readiness of the harpoons. The harpoons weren't ready and tested enough by our standards, as such we decided to play it safe and keep 1923 on the field. I actually had no insight into 5012's can grabbers and what they involved until months after the event.

Karthik,

This is how I understand it as well.

However, I do remember hearing from 118 about some discussion to negotiate a 2 and 2 can split in our SF versus the 1114 alliance? I wasn't privy to the discussion at the time, so this is second hand information. As I understand, our alliance opted to take our chances and try to get more than 2 cans off the step. I believe this was at the risk of seeing 900's harpoons (which we were all terrified to go against!)

The alliance negotiations for every match on Einstein were something else! Great memories.

-Mike

[IKE]

Originally Posted by Richard Wallace

...snip...

Isaac saw what I was thinking immediately -- he and I think alike often. BTW, I don't recall an xkcd reference. My thought was about the end of the 1983 film War Games, in which the NORAD computer learns (by playing a lot of Tic-Tac-Toe before running a lot of simulations) that global thermonuclear war cannot be won.

WOPR with the operating system known as Joshua. It was one of my favorite movies to have on in the background while I built things out of legos. Closely followed by another 1980s gem where I learned the odds of finding a 5 leaf clover.

*Warning some possible stronger language than I remember watching it on WGN channel 9.

[Whatever]

Originally Posted by IKE

WOPR with the operating system known as Joshua. It was one of my favorite movies to have on in the background while I built things out of legos. Closely followed by another 1980s gem where I learned the odds of finding a 5 leaf clover.

*Warning some possible stronger language than I remember watching it on WGN channel 9.

My daughter's FTC team taped a 5 leaf clover to their robot in 2015 for good luck. Although as someone who has found multiple 5 leaf and multiple 6 leaf clovers, I question his math.

[asid61]

Originally Posted by Whatever

My daughter's FTC team taped a 5 leaf clover to their robot in 2015 for good luck. Although as someone who has found multiple 5 leaf and multiple 6 leaf clovers, I question his math.

The old field at my high school (before they changed to turf) had one spot where one could find clovers of 5 leaves and up easily. My brother's cross country team raided it, and my brother came home with 2 8- or 9-leaf clovers, although apparently another kid found a 12-leaf.

[marshall]

Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto

I believe this was at the risk of seeing 900's harpoons (which we were all terrified to go against!)

We were afraid to deploy them!

I even seem to recall some mentor comments about how had we used them then FIRST would have been destroyed forever or some such hyperbole.

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto

This is how I understand it as well.

However, I do remember hearing from 118 about some discussion to negotiate a 2 and 2 can split in our SF versus the 1114 alliance? I wasn't privy to the discussion at the time, so this is second hand information. As I understand, our alliance opted to take our chances and try to get more than 2 cans off the step. I believe this was at the risk of seeing 900's harpoons (which we were all terrified to go against!)

The alliance negotiations for every match on Einstein were something else! Great memories.

I remember the discussion vividly. There was a bit of confusion about the match schedule in the semis. At first we thought we'd be playing you guys in our first semi match, so a 2-2 can split seemed like a good idea for both alliances. However, we then realized we were playing each other in the last semi match. Going into that match we had a 25 point lead, thus a 2-2 can split would have put you at a bug disadvantage. As such we agreed that we'd fight for the cans. This left our alliance with a big decision on whether or not we should deploy 900's harpoons. I made the call that the harpoons were too big of a risk and the rest is history. The definitely one of the coolest matches (despite being on the losing side) we've ever been a part of.