Event Machine Shops

[RoboChair]

Originally Posted by jpetito

The pix are from the second AZ regional in 2016 at Grand Canyon University.

It's a very well organized steel table setup, with electricity wired in, air compressor chucks plumbed on, that's forklifted into the venue. Very impressive how much thought went into it. Don't know who keeps it operational in the off-season.

Joe
Electrician

I definitely like the roll it in, plug-and-play bench set up. That thing is almost a road case type set up. One of the biggest advantages I can see is that anyone can rent a flat-bed/tilt-bed trailer for just the weekend cheaply and not need a permanent trailer with all that equipment set up inside. You could just have it be your normal shop set up and it goes with you.

[Forhire]

PNW District has a couple trailers that are used at most events. Auburn High School allowed us to use their very well tooled shop this year. We repaid the favor by fixing everything we could find to fix during our slow time. Nothing like having machinists with idle time to adjust, repair, and sharpen tools. In addition hundreds of students and teachers filed through the shop over the weekend... I felt like a tour guide at times. A current and retired teacher from the school was there also which was a huge help because they knew where everything is stored. It was a treat and I came home with some great ideas. I'd like to see other schools open their shops as it's easier than setting up the trailer, but I suspect most are reluctant, I would be also, but after seeing how the shop was left in better condition that worry is un-founded.

This little bandsaw... it's been in the PNW District trailer for a couple seasons. You'll notice it's been pimped out. Someone made the fence one weekend... and I added the knob another. I guess we like it. Not what I'd expect from an inexpensive, plastic bandsaw. It sees a lot of use. It does plastic, wood, and aluminum surprisingly well. It's mounted to a roll out work table that has a grinder, sander, and vices mounted to it.

[jpetito]

Hi RoboChair--

The idea of the temporary shop has a lot of merit- pretty hard to justify 50K of gear sitting in a trailer all year and used for only two months on weekends. The Holy Cow example cited previously uses equipment that's installed temporarily for the competition season, then moved back out to wherever it's normally used.

The ideas are endless: Community associations of interested machinists donating gear, local junior college support, temporary contributions by various individuals, outright donations, etc. The BigTable idea could be the same, with gear unbolted and put back in the shop or classroom as needed. Most large venues have forklifts, or one can be rented to move it.

A barrier exists to our good intentions: Liability. Many are restrained from putting their personal stuff out there for other's use for fear of violence by lawyers and courts. Creative policy and associations will probably need to be created to counteract this- non-profit organizations, limitations on who will use the equipment, etc., a fundamental issue to be decided before committing time and money to the effort. Get a good accountant and non-profit lawyer to fight the fights.

The main focus though is not getting geeked out with gear (which I tend to get), but how it points back to skill transference (teaching & learning).

Joe
Middle School Teacher

[jpetito]

Some cross-pollination from the Districts in California discussion thread--

BrendanB from Londonderry makes a good description of what happens at small events: ad-hoc, extraordinary but disjointed efforts by all to keep the machines operational, but distracting the one or two teams with the depth of equipment and skill to do their own work.

If. If. If CA goes to districts, we will see a model like that unless there's a concerted effort to provide for this side-show of effort. Especially for the "janitor closet" teams with no gear and few skills, having available a decent shop at the venue will keep them in the game when their junk breaks. If you've been in the game awhile, you've seen it- plywood and JB Weld bolt-ups built by MacGyver's children with lots of motivation but no skill--they need to be guided along by those of us on skill-rich teams having the capacity to help.

Joe
Junk Fixer

PS-- Wondering--would this kind of guidance reduce the team attrition percentages?

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by jpetito

Some cross-pollination from the Districts in California discussion thread--

BrendanB from Londonderry makes a good description of what happens at small events: ad-hoc, extraordinary but disjointed efforts by all to keep the machines operational, but distracting the one or two teams with the depth of equipment and skill to do their own work.

If. If. If CA goes to districts, we will see a model like that unless there's a concerted effort to provide for this side-show of effort. Especially for the "janitor closet" teams with no gear and few skills, having available a decent shop at the venue will keep them in the game when their junk breaks. If you've been in the game awhile, you've seen it- plywood and JB Weld bolt-ups built by MacGyver's children with lots of motivation but no skill--they need to be guided along by those of us on skill-rich teams having the capacity to help.

Joe
Junk Fixer

PS-- Wondering--would this kind of guidance reduce the team attrition percentages?

Below is what I posted in the other thread because I think you made my post sound more doom and gloom compared to the reality.

Originally Posted by BrendanB

This is what you can expect at most district events: local team's shop if you are at a high school or some tools in a corner staffed by volunteers. 125 has been a big resource in keeping NE events stocked with tools for a machine shop and some transportation issues left RIDE uncovered but teams worked together and everyone shared what they had. It also prompted us to start bringing a larger vice, bandsaw, and belt sander to Boston the next weekend and our pit became a machine shop outpost with volunteers using our tools more than we did.

The machine shops aren't as nice as what teams see in reigonals but you have to keep in mind with teams getting six hours of unbag time in their shops a lot of the machining work teams need to do gets done at their shops. The machine shops still get plenty of use for the times we need it however we use it less than we did during a regional.

It does get beefed up for the District Championships. Connecticut had one of the NASA mobile machine shops this year and I believe WPI uses the shop on campus.

My post was in response to a comment on the RIDE event this year not having a machine shop which has typically been provided by a team in NE who brings some of their tools to events in the area and wasn't able to that weekend. It was an extreme case and as the OP and I said everyone made it through just fine with several teams already having their own bandsaws, vices, drill presses, etc in attendance.

Several events up here have used the shops at the schools (example Windham) which was staffed by volunteers and one of the team's mentors who loves working on the machines.

As I mentioned too these events are shorter and with unbag time the needs of the machine shop have decreased over a normal three day regional with just your withholding allowance for new parts.

To a degree, yes it is more effort by teams in a district to make things run smoothly: teams bringing tools to supply machine shops, mentors & occasionally student volunteers staffing them, and sharing what you have but we all enjoy it and the district system has brought a lot of teams closer together which has been awesome!

[ASD20]

Originally Posted by BrendanB

To a degree, yes it is more effort by teams in a district to make things run smoothly: teams bringing tools to supply machine shops, mentors & occasionally student volunteers staffing them, and sharing what you have but we all enjoy it and the district system has brought a lot of teams closer together which has been awesome!

I would hardly even call it more effort. It takes like 2 minutes to load the band saw you already own into the trailer you already rented for the drive you were already going to do and then like 2 more minutes to unload it. And when you compare the cost of that (Let's say 100 bucks to include in a few bandsaw blades) to the cost of a trailer shop ($1,000s to $10,000s) it's not even debatable which model is more practical and sustainable.

[mman1506]

Something to remember is due to the power restrictions of many venues it's not always possible to run the machine shop off of the venues power. You also usually won't get 240v to run something like a tig welder. We have to use a large diesel and a secondary gas generator to power our machine shop trailer.

[RoboChair]

Originally Posted by mman1506

Something to remember is due to the power restrictions of many venues it's not always possible to run the machine shop off of the venues power. You also usually won't get 240v to run something like a tig welder. We have to use a large diesel and a secondary gas generator to power our machine shop trailer.

Not wholly true. If you bring a VFD or a phase converter you could easily run 220v 3 phase, you just need somewhere to plug in that has a big enough breaker.

[mman1506]

Originally Posted by RoboChair

Not wholly true. If you bring a VFD or a phase converter you could easily run 220v 3 phase, you just need somewhere to plug in that has a big enough breaker.

That's kind of the problem. Ontario events (and others I'm sure) usually bring in a large generator to power lighting and pits but we aren't allowed to hook up to those. Simply finding an outlet near an acceptable area for welding is difficult. It's just another factor that needs to be considered

[OccamzRazor]

Power should be included with the planning for the venue if you will be using a shop at the event which will be up to your planning committee. We have the machine shop trailer itself prepared so that it can hookup to a series of different setups because venues will change over time in a district model.

I wish I had a picture of the electrical setup but I do not.

[RoboChair]

Originally Posted by mman1506

That's kind of the problem. Ontario events (and others I'm sure) usually bring in a large generator to power lighting and pits but we aren't allowed to hook up to those. Simply finding an outlet near an acceptable area for welding is difficult. It's just another factor that needs to be considered

You should tell them that sharing is caring!

But yes I can see that issue. I see the following three options as possible solutions.

1. If you have a good relation with the venue, ask them if they would be willing to install an outlet for that kind of use, if there is available space in the breaker box. Either a 120V receptacle with a high amp rating, a 240V single, or a 220v 3-phase(which you can plug a separate circuit breaker set up to for any combination of the above mentioned types of power!). You will very likely still need a sizable extension cord to make this option work. Just give diplomacy a shot, you might be pleasantly surprised with the response. If they say no then all you have lost is a little time, if they say yes then sweet!

2. Rent a properly sized generator for your needs, you should be able to get one for the 2-3 days for somewhere between $150 and $300. You can find them with 240V single and if you ask around 220V 3-phase.

3. Just find out where you can plug into at the venue and bring extension cords to accommodate the required distance. If the venue is worried about your actual power usage, inform them of how much actual power you will likely use. Just because you have a lot of high draw equipment doesn't mean it will be running most of the time, a lot of it will get used for less than 25% of the time.

I'm sure there are other options as well, but it still mostly boils down to talking with the venue to see what they can provide you or bring your own generator.

[polytechnique]

The Georgia Power machine shop at the state championship this year really saved us.

They had a band saw, a milling machine, a belt sander, and a variety of hand tools like a hacksaw, set of files, etc. Particularly their access to a milling machine plus skilled machinists capable of handling large pieces of aluminum was vital to our robot's mechanics, which wouldn't have worked at all without their help.

I think the most important thing for any machine shop to be able to machine metals, especially aluminum pieces, quickly. Say some vital part breaks during a match and there's no replacement in sight, having a new one within minutes is just about a godsend to a team in the heat of competition. If the machines (especially milling machine and band saw) can handle solid square extrusions (we had to have a piece made from 1x1" solid stock, ugh) then that should reasonably cover the vast majority of jobs that any team will need.

[Sperkowsky]

The SBPLI Long Island regional iirc has a pretty nice machine shop on a trailer. I believe it is sponsored by FESTO who has a HQ local to us

The NYC regional has a very nice machine shop they set up inside the venue. It is fairly large and supplied by Con Edison every year.

I can not find a picture of either but both do some solid work. Neither of them however allow students to work iirc.

There is a lot of iirc as I have never actually used any of the machine shops at our regionals. A team I work closely with did use one at the NYC regional to cut igus sliders and the cut was very very clean.

[Mark Holschuh]

The Wisconsin Regional has provided a very good machine shop the past few years, with a drill press, band saw, belt sanders and the usual assortment of tools. I know that this past year they were prepared to help any teams with materials to construct bumpers if needed.

[RoboChair]

Originally Posted by Sperkowsky

The SBPLI Long Island regional iirc has a pretty nice machine shop on a trailer. I believe it is sponsored by FESTO who has a HQ local to us

The NYC regional has a very nice machine shop they set up inside the venue. It is fairly large and supplied by Con Edison every year.

I can not find a picture of either but both do some solid work. Neither of them however allow students to work iirc.

There is a lot of iirc as I have never actually used any of the machine shops at our regionals. A team I work closely with did use one at the NYC regional to cut igus sliders and the cut was very very clean.

This is fairly typical SOP for these shop set ups. Sadly we live in a hugely litigious society these days. I've managed to get to know the 2 NASA machine shop guys that operate in our region and talk enough shop to gain their trust. To the point they are willing to let me use their stuff in the trailer and/or borrow tools. It's been very useful at times. It makes me feel better when I show up and there is a line people and both guys are busy, I can do something real quick when I will not be in the way and I'm not taking time away from other teams.

Pro Tip: Get really good at doing technical drawings by hand(really nail the dimensioning and tolerance call-outs), the shop guys will be able to make your part quicker and easier. And they will really appreciate it. You can dimension a really bad sketch really well and still convey the proper info very clearly.